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 CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL

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Trinam

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 11:33

Alice wrote:
@Scarlet Weather, I've heard several people now claim this is a money play, but none of them can substantiate this claim. Care to shed some light on the claim that this somehow makes them money? Doctor O himself stated this was based entirely on the winning tops of the Championship. Unless you're calling him a liar. The meta's been stale for a YEAR now. Since February of 2012, the meta has been MLB, Ji Endo, and Tsukuyomi all the way. With some occasional Scarlet Witch after Set 7 and sparse Alfred anti-meta to try and counter crosses.

Hrm. I'll try to support this position:

-Decks that aren't the big three in the meta were not getting built in as high of numbers as the main tournament decks.
-As a result, sets without lots of things that aid the big three were not getting purchased in as great of quantities as if they were able to compete.
-Therefore, anything that causes the meta to become less stagnant will cause more product to move as the tourney players buy product to make new competitive decks.
-And of course that means it would be based entirely on the winning tops of the Championship, that's how you tell which decks to ban to cause this change.

It seems to me that this theory is a plausible alternative to the 'Bushiroad has a brain' theory. I shall call it 'Bushiroad has business sense.'
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ScarletWeather

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 11:38

Alice wrote:


@Scarlet Weather, I've heard several people now claim this is a money play, but none of them can substantiate this claim. Care to shed some light on the claim that this somehow makes them money? Doctor O himself stated this was based entirely on the winning tops of the Championship. Unless you're calling him a liar. The meta's been stale for a YEAR now. Since February of 2012, the meta has been MLB, Ji Endo, and Tsukuyomi all the way. With some occasional Scarlet Witch after Set 7 and sparse Alfred anti-meta to try and counter crosses.

It's not about so much making money as it is that the timing seems calculated to avoid financial loss rather than to actually balance the game. Every card on this set is from BT05 or an earlier set, which is fair enough since Vanguard has some crazy-good cards all through the early sets. The Championship tops is a fair point, but at the same time this easily could have been implemented partway through the year, or 2-3 months after The End's debut- not precisely now, at this particular point, when Bushi's pretty much milked The END for all the money it's worth. I don't think O is a liar, but at the same time I don't expect a representative from the company to go "yes, we're making these bans because The END's continued dominance would be financially bad since basically every other crossride is devalued by it existing."

EDIT: Basically what Trinam said.
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 12:35

So in other words you have a suspicion with a sprinkle of possibility; not evidence. Seems to contradict the fact that Bushiroad have been growing as a company in the last year rather than shrinking and have been branching out to do things such as buy the whole Japanese Wrestling Federation.
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ScarletWeather

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 13:19

Alice wrote:
So in other words you have a suspicion with a sprinkle of possibility; not evidence. Seems to contradict the fact that Bushiroad have been growing as a company in the last year rather than shrinking and have been branching out to do things such as buy the whole Japanese Wrestling Federation.

Well, yeah, this is suspicion and speculation. It's not really about Bushiroad shrinking as a company though- they have multiple properties besides Vanguard which are still earning a tidy bit of income, including the properties they've had forever like Weiss Schwarz, and 2012 covers everything from BT05-BT09. Looking at things for the year wouldn't necessarily say whether the success of BT05 and the competitive meta were cutting into potential profit margins for BT08-BT09 by devaluing the cash cards from them, since it's possible that the set could be doing well and Bushiroad could still be losing out in potential gains. I don't have direct evidence, but that doesn't mean that the suspicion is groundless.
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3XXXDDD
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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 13:27

It means it isn't substantiated which is what Alice was asking for.
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mastermune

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 13:56

Man, reading the facebook page and I have to say, why is there so much butthurt at limiting DOTE? I mean the card was ridiculously stupid powerful, and people in there need to realize that making MORE crossrides is not a solution or a balanced approach. although I'm a little sad for a good friend of mine who plays OTT for the restrictions. Also was Wingal Brave that good to make it into the limited zone? sorry I have never played RP or interested in them to know what it did.
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Lockon Stratos

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 15:02

Okay, I support DOTE's place, can understand Conroe, MLB, Brave and Alfred, don't really get Tsukuyomi's hit though. There's no point. Full Moon doesn't do THAT much for her deck, it's the ride chain's own stacking. It doesn't really nerf Tsukuyomi but opens the door to true brokenness. Seriously, this is NOT going to end well. Why? Two words. Amaterasu Crossride. Just slap it on to the Tsukuyomi bod, make your stack and sit on your 13k VG until you get to it. I'm telling you, people are now seriously underestimating it because of its skill, but it's not the skill, it's the 13k bod coupled with OTT's late game owning, which the 13k will help you get there. Now, why am I freaking out about this NOW? It hasn't happened yet, so why? Well, that's because with this really stupid restriction on Tsuku decks, players of these decks will start looking at their G3 lineup, realize that(Assuming this.) they could use the Crossride to replace their lost Full Moons, as they aleady, probably, run Amaterasu anyway. I told you people, Ammy's the one to watch out for. Who cares if she's essentially a vanilla 13k, she's freaking 13k, in an OTT deck? Her skill is just icing you can use if you think you need to, although most should not. I'm rambling again. *SMACK!!!*
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3XXXDDD
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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 15:10

mastermune wrote:
Man, reading the facebook page and I have to say, why is there so much butthurt at limiting DOTE? I mean the card was ridiculously stupid powerful, and people in there need to realize that making MORE crossrides is not a solution or a balanced approach. although I'm a little sad for a good friend of mine who plays OTT for the restrictions. Also was Wingal Brave that good to make it into the limited zone? sorry I have never played RP or interested in them to know what it did.

I'm pretty sure some MLB decks only played something like 2 MLB because Wingal Brave was such a good searcher and allowed for open to a more diverse line up. So yeah, there is a rational behind it.
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Trinam

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 15:27

Alice wrote:
So in other words you have a suspicion with a sprinkle of possibility; not evidence. Seems to contradict the fact that Bushiroad have been growing as a company in the last year rather than shrinking and have been branching out to do things such as buy the whole Japanese Wrestling Federation.

There's not a contradiction between a company making a move that balances a game and makes more money for them while also expanding their holdings as a company independently. I would point out that purchasing an entire wrestling company is a move that requires a fair bit of capital, and recouping some of the losses through this change making tourneyfags need to get more product would be, again, a wise business move.

Now, if you will require a signed memo to believe that they thought money was involved at all, that's well and good. I don't have that, I only have logical conclusions. But I think it's naive and insults Bushiroad's ability as a company to imply it was done in absence of any evaluation of money. They are a company. Evaluating the consequences to cash flow is basic if you want to succeed, and Bushi has proven themselves able to succeed.
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ScarletWeather

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 15:31

Trinam wrote:
Alice wrote:
So in other words you have a suspicion with a sprinkle of possibility; not evidence. Seems to contradict the fact that Bushiroad have been growing as a company in the last year rather than shrinking and have been branching out to do things such as buy the whole Japanese Wrestling Federation.

There's not a contradiction between a company making a move that balances a game and makes more money for them while also expanding their holdings as a company independently. I would point out that purchasing an entire wrestling company is a move that requires a fair bit of capital, and recouping some of the losses through this change making tourneyfags need to get more product would be, again, a wise business move.

Now, if you will require a signed memo to believe that they thought money was involved at all, that's well and good. I don't have that, I only have logical conclusions. But I think it's naive and insults Bushiroad's ability as a company to imply it was done in absence of any evaluation of money. They are a company. Evaluating the consequences to cash flow is basic if you want to succeed, and Bushi has proven themselves able to succeed.

This.

If it was only about game balance, I'd expect the changes to be announced as immediately going into effect for the English game too- but they aren't. Or rather, they might at some point, but Bushiroad isn't going to make that move when BT05 is still a product they want to make money on in English Vanguard.
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Werekill

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 16:23

So Shadow Paladins don't have a restriction on their crossride? Huh.

The question is whether or not the crossride build is better than just a normal one.
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CyprusWHM

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 16:29

Werekill wrote:
So Shadow Paladins don't have a restriction on their crossride? Huh.

The question is whether or not the crossride build is better than just a normal one.

As "meh" as PBO is, 13k is still 13k. It's better for that reason alone.
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Werekill

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 16:40

But is it worth getting rid of the benefits from the other grade 3's?
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Lich_Lord_Fortissimo

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 16:44

Don't underestimate vanilla play. Tachikaze get by with just swinging for massive power screwing any other complicated gimmick.

Because Tachikaze is a DON.
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Kirosnefakman

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 17:04

Personally I prefer Ildona and Dark Dictator (with Catha supporting) than PBD and PBO, so I think PBO is not worth.
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Werekill

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 17:08

Same. I mean 13k can be very useful, but without a spectacular ability like DOTE, it doesn't make it instantly playable. You have to really consider the alternatives.
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Omnigeek

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 17:34

Alice wrote:
I disagree with the OTT restriction. No Godhawk and it should be any 4 of them, not any 2.

They can keep Peanut Butter Oranges until SP get something more usable. Thankfully even with PBO, most people don't play SP just for the crossride.

Hold on a tick, I thought they meant two of any of the cards, not "out of these 3 specific cards, you only get to use two of them at most." Forgive my language, but what the hell?
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ScarletWeather

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 17:52

Omnigeek wrote:
Alice wrote:
I disagree with the OTT restriction. No Godhawk and it should be any 4 of them, not any 2.

They can keep Peanut Butter Oranges until SP get something more usable. Thankfully even with PBO, most people don't play SP just for the crossride.

Hold on a tick, I thought they meant two of any of the cards, not "out of these 3 specific cards, you only get to use two of them at most." Forgive my language, but what the hell?

Ayup. That's pretty much why the ban means anything for Majesty Lord, since now your Brave search has to default target him.

Incidentally, does anyone else see Retro Paladin soldiering on afterward with Soul Saver being used to make up for your lost Majesty slots? You can't Holy Charging Roar with it if it's your opening ride, but because of the default +3k you can just stick Wingal Brave behind it and not have to worry about his column failing to pressure against crossrides.

EDIT: ...Derp, meant Alfred not Majesty. What.


Last edited by ScarletWeather on 2012-12-10, 18:48; edited 1 time in total
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3XXXDDD
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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 18:25

2K*

I can see that yeah, as in as much as it has been, Royal Paladin still has plenty going on for it.

Phantom Blaster Overlord is actually looking mighty tempting right now. Most consistent ride chain, Blaster Javelin can discard extra copies of Overlord to search for Regular (So Cross-Riding should be a little bit more than 68 percent in that deck) and has Nemain to add some more tank to the tank.
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ScarletWeather

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 18:46

3XXXDDD wrote:
2K*

I can see that yeah, as in as much as it has been, Royal Paladin still has plenty going on for it.

Phantom Blaster Overlord is actually looking mighty tempting right now. Most consistent ride chain, Blaster Javelin can discard extra copies of Overlord to search for Regular (So Cross-Riding should be a little bit more than 68 percent in that deck) and has Nemain to add some more tank to the tank.

That and the option of Nightmare Painter.

I'll class this one as "believe it when I see it", though. Whether it can consistently get the ride or not, until we get new Shadow Paladin support I can see players veering toward the newer crossrides first.

Also I meant the +3k when Saver attacks a Vanguard, not the +2k that Crossrides gain.
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HerO

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 18:53

I'm more upset that Alfred was restricted, that's just bullshit.
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Tryston

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 19:34

You made my day Alice! I love you and this site so very much.... ;u;
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Klaus

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 19:36

Also many laughs at the guy on the FB page blaming VMundi's letter.
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WingZero

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 19:47

Oh.. oh my... I'm pretty happy right now. I don't use any of the restricted cards :D
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Traesive

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PostSubject: Re: CROSSRIDE RESTRICTIONS: OFFICIAL   2012-12-10, 19:58

And tears of joy rolled down my eyes.
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