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 TD08 and TD09

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ScarletWeather

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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-02, 08:13

Let's see, given the kind of abilities Gold Paladin aces have had in the last few official set releases outside of Chrome...

New clan focus on powering up lots of rear guards at once + consistent call + access to probably some form of retire now that they have Blade. Massively OP and potentially capable of warping the meta around it in Japan for some time (as in The END levels of warping, more broken than broken etc.)

...If this is the price needed to give Gold Paladins more consistent boss cards, I'll stick with the topdeck call.
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Lockon Stratos

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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-02, 08:26

Am I only one who think that the reverse should of happened? Have the Gold Paladins assimilated into the Royals or keep them around as their own semi autonamous group, under or alongside them, I dunno. I dunno, I don't really like the assimilation, or the fact that Golds are sticking around as Golds. They were brought together under that banner for one reason, save the sealed warriors. They have succeeded, so they no longer are needed as they are and can go off do whatever they want. Garmore can retake his position as... whatever the hell he was among the Royals, that weird guy with the dogs I guess(As in what purpose does he actually serve among them, lore wise that is.) and the others can do whatever the hell they want, go with him, lead a peaceful life in the sticks or, heck, do the wandering hero bit.

Man, with this turn of events, I can't even justify their random calls lorewise anymore. Before, loosely organized... eh, we'll call them freedom fighters, likely not having good logistics and getting by on guts and courage, explaining the random nature of their calling, they don't have as much or even the right kind of supplies as they want, so they make due with what they have. NOW, they are THE standing army of the United Sanctuary and thus have access to the the resoures and supplies of the government, so if they continue wild call, I call bullshit.
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3XXXDDD
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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-02, 08:28

I redact my previous statement.

Also, Golds into Royals make a hell lot more sense especially considering the Royals are training the Golds to act as leaders.
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-02, 09:32

ScarletWeather wrote:
Let's see, given the kind of abilities Gold Paladin aces have had in the last few official set releases outside of Chrome...

New clan focus on powering up lots of rear guards at once + consistent call + access to probably some form of retire now that they have Blade. Massively OP and potentially capable of warping the meta around it in Japan for some time (as in The END levels of warping, more broken than broken etc.)

...If this is the price needed to give Gold Paladins more consistent boss cards, I'll stick with the topdeck call.
I hate both. Random topdecks need to GO and be replaced by something that isn't noobish and stupidity. And that isn't stealing RP and SP.

Also you're a moron if you think GP are The End levels of broken or will do anything in Japan, even in BT10 when far better decks like Dragger will exist.
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Epideme

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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-02, 09:58

I for one welcome our new Spike Brothers overlords. Let them challenge the Gold Paladins to a game of whatever the hell they play and have them take over the United Sanctuary. That would be a good plot.
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-02, 12:36

Epideme wrote:
I for one welcome our new Spike Brothers overlords. Let them challenge the Gold Paladins to a game of whatever the hell they play and have them take over the United Sanctuary. That would be a good plot.
I was shadowboxing my new Sterns and pulled out my Spikes for a neat Emperor-Stern duke out.

I...forgot I had proxied Dragger and it totally stemped Stern all over the map. It wasn't even close. And the fucked up part is Spikes were way down in card advantage AND damage until Late game. All it took was break ride and moving up a single goddamn express with one other attacker (Juggs) to just game.

Spikes are now just I WIN
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Lich_Lord_Fortissimo

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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-03, 07:25

Rah rah

Break Ride in the literal sense

Spike Brothers win

Rah rah

I feel really bad for the wide-eyed newbies who recently bought Trial Decks 1 or 2 (yes some still exist) only to find that their deck gets shat on by these new broken messes.
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-03, 08:56

Yeap. It's bad for a company's image and product when they keep doing that shit. You cannot keep releasing broken dogshit unless you have a golden handcuffs effect like Yugioh. That's why startup games that are broken DIE (Kaijudo lol)
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Lich_Lord_Fortissimo

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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-03, 14:01

"OH MY GOD, THIS IS THE GREATEST CARD I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE!

There's this card, called Solitary Knight Gancelot.

And he was made to support Blaster Blade in a Royal Paladin Deck!

Only no-one ever played him because he sucked!

Isn't that a bit harsh?

I mean he was only at 9000 power compared to 11000 Vanguards.

And his skill wasn't as permanent as 11000 Vanguards.

And he couldn't naturally attack very well compared to 11000 Vanguards.

Oh, wait a moment.

But then later on he finds a niche in Majesty Lord Blaster!

At one copy.

What!? Yup, he's there as a tech choice but not as a Vanguard.

So Gancelot sort of does shit all for 4 Booster Packs.

But then the bosses at Bushiroad are like, "We need to find a way to fight Crossrides!"

"How about a card that is mechanically similar to a crossride but has a more instant and broken reward?"

"You, sir, are a fucking genius."

So Gancelot was rebooted into Solitary Liberator, Gancelot!

I was rebooted once!

Or my internet router was, at any rate.

But then the bosses at Bushiroad are like, "Gancelot should also make Rear Guards retardedly powerful on the turn he's played!"

"But a clan already does that! It's called Soul Saver Dragon for Royal Paladin!"

"But this is different!"

"How? He not only has virtually the same ability, he's a 13k hitter, just like Soul Saver Dragon!"

"...he's 11000 power and is much cheaper! And he makes the Vanguard retardedly powerful too!"

"You do realise that just makes Spectral Duke Dragon, one of the second more popular choices only to crossrides stupidly broken, right?"

"Yeah, but no-one will think of that!"

"...but I just..."

"Up! Zip it!"

So Solitary Liberator, Gancelot will be released in a Trial Deck, making Gold Paladins even more like Bushiroad's favourite red-headed child than other clans.

HORRAY!

So I really like Solitary Liberator, Gancelot, and I'm really excited to see where Vanguard goes next!

Like, how about a Vanguard with 21000 power?

There's lots of ways to make 21000 power columns, so why not? They wouldn't be unbeatable!

This is Lich Lord Fortissimo saying: PERFECT GUARDS! YA GOT PERFECT GUARDS!? AW, C'MON HELP A GUY OUT WILL YA!? C'MON, PERFECT GUARDS!

C'mon, I'll use them to build crossride decks to fight these new cards! Dragonic Overlord The End needs to take back what's rightfully his!"
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smellmybox

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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-03, 16:07

wat
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Lich_Lord_Fortissimo

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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-03, 16:15

You never watched Bum Reviews?

Good, because I wouldn't recommend it for everyone.

But it's all true.
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ScarletWeather

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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-03, 19:58

Quote :
I hate both. Random topdecks need to GO and be replaced by something that isn't noobish and stupidity. And that isn't stealing RP and SP.

Also you're a moron if you think GP are The End levels of broken or will do anything in Japan, even in BT10 when far better decks like Dragger will exist.

They will. Not necessarily The END levels of broken, but they will see play in the Japanese meta and they will be part of the new top decks. Gold Paladin are entrenched because of previous tournament success which guarantees that people will want to play them, their break ride is extremely powerful even if it's not quite a Dragger, and the deck can perform really well even if you completely miss the break ride. They have the option to all-11k-all-the-time now. Garmore is confirmed in rulings to be able to roundabout trigger break ride a turn early.

And aside from that when I said "for some time", I did mean it. Short of banning about five key cards the incoming deluge of GP support is going to mean that they have a much larger pool of things to break with than other clans.

But hey, it could just be that Bushiroad has finally pushed far enough with the clan that I'm getting sick of them and feeling really pessimistic that anything good could possibly come out of giving them new, significant support for a while. I'm also really tired of this happening every time I start to get invested in a clan.
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-03, 20:44

What are you even talking about? You and other people keep saying nonsense like GPs are being successful when not only can none of you substantiate it, but I and 3D have had to post tournament records showing exactly the opposite. That Golds are not doing well and that there's no reason to believe they will in the future.

Now like maybe in the newest of the new tournament formats which has yet to even come, Platina Ezel might make a grandstand due to the ability to superior call and get off a crossride in like 4/5 games, but I dunno about that yet. We'll have to see. The biggest fucking problem in Vanguard right now is that even if a clan is really good, we can't predict that they'll top or even be played. Right now with The End and Majesty gone, and all the other broke-ass crossrides being ultimate breaks, that leaves a huge gap that Ultimate Daiyuusha can fill. PBO just doesn't have the maindeck support to compete with most other CRs but Ultimate Daiyusha is a pretty strong contender, and disgusting with Laurel. But do I think anyone will actually play him despite the inherent rapeness of that deck? No. Because it's not vogue and vanguard is still a new game even in Japan, with people who still don't think that far into it.

Basically unless there's a totally OP card that breaks everything and is obvious about it (which were restricted already) or something people think is broken even if they're wrong, like ENG Gold Paladin players, no one is going to bandwagon it. And now that we have restrictions, it's really up in the air what Set 9's format will bring to the tournament scene. And BT10 is just a crapshoot. I wager Dragger and Erasers see a lot of play though. Everyone is realizing they're broken as hell.
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ScarletWeather

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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-03, 21:08

Alice wrote:
What are you even talking about? You and other people keep saying nonsense like GPs are being successful when not only can none of you substantiate it, but I and 3D have had to post tournament records showing exactly the opposite. That Golds are not doing well and that there's no reason to believe they will in the future.

They have been tier 2 in Japan's metagame before their latest significant support arrived and in an environment where a lot of other clans floundered. That's what I mean by 'success'. They're already in the established pool of top decks in both major metagames.

Alice wrote:
Now like maybe in the newest of the new tournament formats which has yet to even come, Platina Ezel might make a grandstand due to the ability to superior call and get off a crossride in like 4/5 games, but I dunno about that yet. We'll have to see. The biggest fucking problem in Vanguard right now is that even if a clan is really good, we can't predict that they'll top or even be played. Right now with The End and Majesty gone, and all the other broke-ass crossrides being ultimate breaks, that leaves a huge gap that Ultimate Daiyuusha can fill. PBO just doesn't have the maindeck support to compete with most other CRs but Ultimate Daiyusha is a pretty strong contender, and disgusting with Laurel. But do I think anyone will actually play him despite the inherent rapeness of that deck? No. Because it's not vogue and vanguard is still a new game even in Japan, with people who still don't think that far into it.

Basically unless there's a totally OP card that breaks everything and is obvious about it (which were restricted already) or something people think is broken even if they're wrong, like ENG Gold Paladin players, no one is going to bandwagon it. And now that we have restrictions, it's really up in the air what Set 9's format will bring to the tournament scene. And BT10 is just a crapshoot. I wager Dragger and Erasers see a lot of play though. Everyone is realizing they're broken as hell.

And Gancelot isn't exactly that?

It might just be the flavor of the moment but if you dropped both Dragger and Dragonic Descendant (or Vowing Sword) from the game, right now Gold Paladin would probably be an undisputed leader because their break ride is that good. They're also the clan with the good break ride which has not yet had the bulk of its new pack aces previewed, is confirmed to probably be getting a really good utility unit, and- super importantly- it's already a presence. People are already using it in Japan even if it's at lower counts and it's taken finals slots already. It has more exposure, a large pool of support, access to a crossride and a very powerful break ride. I really don't see how Gold Paladin could not take up some of the tournament scene.

Now mind you, I fully admit that making these statements I'm allowing myself to embrace bias and backlash. Like a lot of players I'm finally reaching the point where the ridiculous amount of Gold Paladin focus in the past few sets has begun to bore me, to the point where despite actually having a pretty decent collection of cards from the clan I worked to get my hands on I'm outright considering dropping it because of the reactions it's getting from other players and the fun being sucked out of the game every time it shows up. I could be entirely wrong because at this point, I'm just speculating.

But at the same time I don't think it's fair to say there's nothing behind this. Just because English players horrifically overestimated some of the worst builds of Gold Paladin doesn't mean that GP didn't also have some really stiff-contender cards from the outset, and just because the clan only got a broken card at the same time somebody else got cards which might be slightly more broken doesn't reduce the essential fact that Golds are overpowered, established, and thus it is possible to reasonably infer they are going to see play as one of the major contenders for JP format.
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-03, 21:22

ScarletWeather wrote:
They have been tier 2 in Japan's metagame before their latest significant support arrived and in an environment where a lot of other clans floundered.
Prove it. I've already posted the counter-evidence to this countless times. You're the Proponent, let's see you meet the Burden of Proof for your claim.

Scarlet Weather wrote:
And Gancelot isn't exactly that?
Please stop pretending Gancelot is anything like Dragger. They're from different universes. Go fucking proxy the deck so I can stop watching you and everyone else try to say Gancelot is anywhere in the same league as Dragger or the new Narukamis. Gancelot is good only for Gold Paladins, not compared to the rest of that meta. Golds will possibly be Tier 2 as of BT10, but no higher and not before that.

Scarlet Weather wrote:
It might just be the flavor of the moment but if you dropped both Dragger and Dragonic Descendant (or Vowing Sword) from the game, right now
EXACTLY. IF you drop the two leading OP unit sets from the game. But we aren't.

Scarlet Weather wrote:
Gold Paladin would probably be an undisputed leader because their break ride is that good.
[Edited out]
Now mind you, I fully admit that making these statements I'm allowing myself to embrace bias and backlash.
No. That's just ridiculous. If you actually think this and want to take this position, then I think that's so ludicrious you are just going to have to actually back that up with something substantial. You think BT10 Golds are going to be undisputed the best if you ignore Dragger and Descendent? Okay. Howabout you go proxy and test that deck against every other Crossride deck. I won't even make you test break rides or the restricted ones. Tell me if it just wipes the board. I'll even take your word on it so long as you do at least 30 games per crossride opponent.

And as for that second line, why are you even bothering talking about it when you admit it's just speculation and bias? Why does everyone talk like Gold Paladins are some juggernaut force? They're not. It's garbage that there's so much GP support, but having a vast quantity of cards doesn't do shit for improving the clan's quality. Nova Grapplers previously had the most number of cards yet couldn't hold a candle to a single crossride before they got Illuminal. I don't see anyone bitching over Grapplers support when they got it in nearly every expansion.
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ShinkenRed

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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-21, 02:12


Blaster Blade Liberator
Quote :

Grade 2
9000
5k Shield
[AUTO]:[Counter Blast (2)] When this unit is placed on (VC) or (RC), if you have a vanguard with "Liberator" in its card name, you may pay
the cost. If you do, choose an opponent's rear-guard in the front row, and retire it.
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Omnigeek

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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-21, 03:02

I was wondering when they'd get around to adding the effect. Every Blaster Blade reincarnation could Counterblast to weaken enemy lines and a 9k vanilla unit just didn't make any sense with the pattern of every other Grade 2 unit.
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Lich_Lord_Fortissimo

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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-21, 05:38

Something that GP needed the least. God...
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-21, 09:14

Basically identical to Blaster Blade (retire attacker type units) but slightly better. It gets Liberator support and can retire stuff like Gururubau when it's attacking. Though it does lose a brunt of gimmicky RP support for the original. Golds having access to Royal cards is disgusting and pisses me off, but at least it might make them more respectable mechanically. Players might actually stop being horrible scrubs now. While I never really like RP, I at least respected it as a proper clan with good mechanics that taught newbies how to play Vanguard properly and what to prioritize. Gold Paladins were released as the antithesis of everything that makes a good TCG player.
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gettineggywithit

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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-21, 12:08

Lich_Lord_Fortissimo wrote:
Something that GP needed the least. God...
This is what the LIBERATORS needed. A card that wasn't broken as all ass. GP already had Blaster Blade Spirit and Blaster Dark Spirit for killing power. THAT is just an extra Liberator card made for the purpose of circumventing special counterblasts (SCB?).

But it'll be fine, right? We just need to wait for Bushi to HOPEFULLY balance break rides in the english meta, right? RIGHT? (cries in corner)
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Lich_Lord_Fortissimo

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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-21, 12:11

Is it a small corner? if not, shift. I want room in the corner too.
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gettineggywithit

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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-21, 12:25

Lich_Lord_Fortissimo wrote:
Is it a small corner? if not, shift. I want room in the corner too.
Don't worry, bro. There's always enough room in the corner.
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Traesive

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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-21, 13:05

I really have no problems with break rides.
But Gancelot pisses me off.
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Kirosnefakman

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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-21, 16:37

Traesive wrote:
I really have no problems with break rides.
But Gancelot pisses me off.

So Bad End Dragger is just fine for you.
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Traesive

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PostSubject: Re: TD08 and TD09   2013-01-21, 18:54

Gancelot makes you guard for a flat 3 more stages ignoring the vg. No minusing involved, just an almost costless Soul Saver.
Dragger is 4, but they at least minus 2 for the cost. Still a scary ass card, none the less.
That's my logic, anywho.
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