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 Some sort of maybe happy news or perhaps not depending on your point of view

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Lich_Lord_Fortissimo

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PostSubject: Some sort of maybe happy news or perhaps not depending on your point of view   2013-01-03, 07:20

Recently, Bushiroad are taking legal action against Byond. Some guy called Kei Nagase contacted Cardfight Capital's maker threatening legal action and taking no chances, they've decided to shut it down.

Feelings are mixed for me. On one hand it was far from complete (the shuffling system was shit and binding was only possible from the hand) but it was the only simulator we had and it was the most well known.

Source: http://www.neus-projects.net/showthread.php?3131-Sayonara-Cardfight-Capital

Feel free to post your opinions here.

Also, now that CFC will soon cease to exist, does that mean V-Mundi tournies will be Skype exclusive...?
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: Some sort of maybe happy news or perhaps not depending on your point of view   2013-01-03, 08:53

So I have a lot of opinions about this. It's good that Cardfight Capital is being taken down from a logistic point of view, because it creates terrible players and fosters a community of emotional players. Before I talk about why this is good, though, I want to talk about why it's bad CFC is being taken down.

CFC caused a lot of players to start playing Vanguard. Without any alternative simulator, those people might stop playing altogether because TCGs are not the most convenient hobby for everyone to have. With Bushiroad not providing an official competing product, I find this move to be both distasteful and detrimental to both the community as a whole (population of players, not quality) and to Bushiroad as a whole, which in turn affects us all. It's very likely that Bushiroad doesn't even realize how much CFC has brought them customers because it's a word-of-mouth platform, and those are always the strongest for moving your product image. The intrinsic desire of your customers to share your product is always the most powerful advertising agency. However, with this type of advertisement comes the risks of the people as a whole misrepresenting you or your product in some way.

Now, you can't prevent free speech legally, but you can prevent copyright infringement (which literally does nothing to anyone if someone isn't selling a product) to stop someone from screwing up your image. Companies that shut down fan-based projects are, in my eyes, scummy. Fan-based projects that are created out of a want for something but a lack of it existing (simulator) are useful and they bring companies revenue indirectly. Bushiroad doing this sets a powerful precedent for anyone attempting to make a simulator. Hell, even Konami hasn't taken down fucking Duelist Network and they have a competing product (YGO online). Especially the manner in which the threats were received was troublesome. Kei Nagase was very irresponsible with his company's image by making the threats so (as described) "brutish". From a purely logistical and quantitative standpoint, this is the worst move for Bushiroad and the Cardfight community as a whole. Less players, less money for Bushiroad, public image of them down the drain.

Now why this is good! Quantitatively, CFC needed to be purged. It was heathen central for people who wanted to build and foster an agenda-based player community. You get a bunch of baddies around and they build their own ideas for how the game should go. Those ideas being heavily influenced by a bad random number generator which I have seen turn even our own members into raving idiots after only a month or two of continued use. CFC is like a tool that makes players worse at the game, fosters the worst community attitudes imaginable, and taking it down will actually bring in a gap which can be filled by other, better simulators. It could even start a competing simulators race. At the current point CFC is too big to fail. Even if better simulators came along, the stark traditionalist mindset of its brainwashed players would continue to play the inferior product and thus demote the game and the superior simulators. Getting rid of it allows for the chance that a better one is created.

Why this doesn't matter at all: I have no idea why people who receive cease and desists will flip their shit and actually shut something down. It's never out of moral fortitude or legal obligation. They just do it when they don't want to. Here's a tip: you can save the source files, shut it down, and make a new account with an underground version and spread the word out to people about it. No matter how many times they take your new CFCs down, they can never stop you putting them up. Why? Because the internet is fucking anonymous. They have no idea who you are (unless you're some retard who links to your facebook) and can't bring any legal action against you. They can't get your IP address from anywhere since that's not even stored by Byond, and even if they could, it doesn't provide your address, isn't admissible in court in just about any country, and you could be using a proxy anyway. Basically this is just blowing smoke. The only way this could ever be a real threat is if you make money; wherein they could subpoena any company (Paypal etc) that takes your money for the service. Since CFC is completely not-for-profit, it takes no money and there's no trail to follow. Which by the way, in some countries makes CFC completely legal.

So anyway those are my thoughts. It's good, bad, and stupid all at the same time.
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ShinkenRed

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PostSubject: Re: Some sort of maybe happy news or perhaps not depending on your point of view   2013-01-03, 08:56

I'm not 100% sure about this, but about few weeks back I read that Bushiroad is making an Online game for Vanguard so I assume that'd the reason why they are taking action now.
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: Some sort of maybe happy news or perhaps not depending on your point of view   2013-01-03, 09:02

Also I've seen a lot of people stating that the 3DS game is the cause. I doubt that's true since they're completely unrelated, but if it is then Bushiroad is incompetent. Not everyone has or wants a 3DS but everyone has a PC. It was actually stupid for them to pick the 3DS and not PC as the platform in the first place.

If they're making an online sim themselves (which the thought did cross my mind), then it's DOUBLY stupid to take down the competition before it even arrives. Now you have this huge gap between release where people will hate you and your company and leave the game.
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Lich_Lord_Fortissimo

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PostSubject: Re: Some sort of maybe happy news or perhaps not depending on your point of view   2013-01-04, 13:59

Rumors of the cease and desist being a hoax. Possibility of the email used to contact Cardfight Capital being stolen. Nothing confirmed though.
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: Some sort of maybe happy news or perhaps not depending on your point of view   2013-01-04, 14:00

How does a rumor like THAT even start? That makes no sense. You can spoof emails though.
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3XXXDDD
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PostSubject: Re: Some sort of maybe happy news or perhaps not depending on your point of view   2013-01-04, 14:24

I've seen it suggested elsewhere that Bushi are majorly concerned over the fact that Byond as a whole is a "For-Profit" website, so they may have come down harder on it then they would on any other variation of the platform.

Keep in mind, it was simply what someone suggested. Not saying it's true.
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3XXXDDD
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PostSubject: Re: Some sort of maybe happy news or perhaps not depending on your point of view   2013-01-09, 16:41

So you know when CFC let people host their own version. Well apparently that meant giving people the sourcefiles, so other people are still hosting it even if the main guy isn't.
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Lich_Lord_Fortissimo

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PostSubject: Re: Some sort of maybe happy news or perhaps not depending on your point of view   2013-01-09, 16:50

So it's going to stop at Set 9?
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: Some sort of maybe happy news or perhaps not depending on your point of view   2013-01-09, 18:48

3XXXDDD wrote:
So you know when CFC let people host their own version. Well apparently that meant giving people the sourcefiles, so other people are still hosting it even if the main guy isn't.

Yeah. Like I said you can't ever really take down a byond project.
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PostSubject: Re: Some sort of maybe happy news or perhaps not depending on your point of view   2013-01-11, 11:19

NAC stole this from Touya's blog and I stole it from NAC

Quote :
Earlier this morning, Bushiroad’s primary legal representative in their recent shutting down of the Cardfight Capital platform, Kei Nagase (in our standard handling of Japanese names, Nagase Kei) contacted us, issuing a public statement regarding the cease and desist order and why it was necessary. Below is the full statement, unmodified;


To all our valued users

Thank you for your continuous support with Cardfight!! Vanguard.

We would also like to thank you for sending us your opinions with regards to the game Cardfight Capital. We have read and reviewed all the comments received so far.


We understand that many of you have enjoyed our trading card game Cardfight!! Vanguard through Cardfight Capital and that some of you have even started to play the physical game because of Cardfight Capital. Whichever the case may be, we are very heartened and thankful for your interest in Cardfight!! Vanguard.


Even after taking all these facts into consideration, we are still not able to change our stance towards the shutting down of Cardfight Capital.

There are 2 main reasons to this decision, and please be assured that monetary reasons were not behind this decision.


1. For the players who do not have access to the Cardfight Capital, it is an unfair advantage when the players who access it can perform deck tests and play the game freely through Cardfight Capital.

2. The fact remains that Cardfight Capital is infringing copyright property. To let such violations go unchecked with ultimately lead to the decline of intellectual property. Even if it does contribute to the growth of our TCG presently, the situation will most likely change in the future, and become a threat in its growth.


We would like to take the opportunity to apologize to the users who are finding it difficult to purchase Cardfight!! Vanguard products and card games in their regions.

We are working hard to ensure that Cardfight!! Vanguard can be enjoyed by every user all over the world and to provide a better play environment for the game.

We seek your patience and kind understanding in this matter.


Sincerely,


———

Kei Nagase

Bushiroad Inc.

Legal section

http://bushiroad.fm/

———

The cease and desist, once thought to be a hoax, has been verified as a very real order to close support for the platform. Devourer of Souls et al. has complied; CFC will no longer be updated, and the only way to play the game is through servers hosted by private individuals with no connection to those started by the development team. While much uproar has developed in the community over this, Mr. Nagase’s statements regarding copyright infringement and the erosion of intellectual property ring true for many. More to come as the situation develops.
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3XXXDDD
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PostSubject: Re: Some sort of maybe happy news or perhaps not depending on your point of view   2013-01-11, 11:21

I understand protecting Intellectual Property without a doubt but who doesn't have access to CFC but has access to cards in reality? These mysterious people keep getting brought up and I have no idea who they are or if they exist.

I do enjoy how they mention it wasn't anything related to money. That's very transparent for a company.
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: Some sort of maybe happy news or perhaps not depending on your point of view   2013-01-11, 16:25

I never thought it was a hoax. I don't even know where such a stupid rumor came from.

I get where they're coming from and even support it to a degree. But their reasons strike of bullshit to me. Especially the first one. Who are these players who don't have access to CFC? It's free and anyone can join quickly and easily. Bushiroad products are hard to get without internet access, so if you can get theirs, you can get CFC. Furthermore how is it "unfair" to people who for some reason have melted brains and cannot "get CFC"? And finally, why should we care if it's fair or enforce fairness? Everything about that "reason" reeked of bullshit.

As did them hanging a lampshade on the money issue. I don't believe them when they say it has nothing to do with money. Maybe it's not a primary concern, but I simply don't believe it's of no concern. The IP protection I get though, because CFC makes vanguard look really bad. In every way.

Also they just handwaved all the arguments for CFC away. I get why they had to do this, but no one who reads it should take the handwave as a legitimate answer. The only take-away from this that I can see as purely honest is the IP protection.
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