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 (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do

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3XXXDDD
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PostSubject: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-03-10, 09:57

THINK BEFORE YOU REPLY TO THIS TOPIC. READ THIS POST COMPLETELY BEFORE YOU REPLY TO THIS TOPIC. READ ALL OF THE LINKS IN THIS TOPIC BEFORE REPLYING TO THIS POST. THIS IS A SERIOUS TOPIC AND SHOULD NOT BE ABUSED OR TREATED AS LIGHTLY AS THE SIMILARLY NAMED "SHIT THAT CARDFIGHTER'S SAY THREAD". DO NOT CRY, WHINE OR BITCH IF YOU GET REPRIMANDED OR YOUR POST GETS EDITED IN ANYWAY (YOU'LL SEE WHY NON-ABUSIVE EDITS MIGHT OCCUR IF YOU READ THIS POST COMPLETELY).

I'm sure most, if not all, of you remember the absolute disgrace of an event that was the New York-New Jersey World Championship Qualifier 2012 with an abundance of mishaps, incorrect rulings and severe penalties for minor faults. I'm sure you would like to believe that shit's got better for the Cardfight Challenge Cup & Trio Tournament. Apparently not. Following are examples I've heard

- Player gets game loss for applying Power from a Draw Trigger before Drawing. (Firstly, this is an incorrect ruling, secondly, even if it was a correct ruling due to the minor insignificant impact it had on the game, a game loss is far too severe of a penalty. It's like trying to open a can of worms with a rocket launcher level of stupid)

- Player forgets to stand before drawing. The Judges rule that he can't stand any of his units this turn. (Again, it's a severe penalty for a minor fault, secondly it's an illegal penalty for a minor fault).

This is just a few of the the problems in the Judging community that infuriate me and following trends it is likely that more problems will present themselves. What really bloody gets me though is that for all the bitching the players do, they don't do anything practical about it, so welcome to this thread, WHERE PLAYERS DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Firstly, when going to a Tournament, download & study these guides
- Vanguard Floor Rules PDF
- Vanguard Comprehensive Rules PDF
- Any notes particularly misunderstood card skills (such as "Battle Cupid, Nociel" swapping cards while on five Damage) if you happen to use the card in your deck.

Alice also covered how to interact with Judges during a Tournament in her article on Tournament Survival

During a Tournament, if you believe you have been wronged by a Judge, even after following all of the guidelines listed above and in the Tournament Survival Article make sure to do the following;
1) Get the Name of the Judge (and Head Judge if necessary)
2) Report to Bushiroad HQ about the supposed misconduct
3) If nothing happens (maybe even if something does). Post the situation in this thread in order to publicly shame the so-called Judge so players can be on guard at any Events using a format similar to this

- Name of Judge/Head Judge*
- Date/Venue/Time/Event/Round
- Situation
- Actions taken to prevent the situation

*DO NOT BE QUICK TO NAME AND SHAME THE JUDGE. While we do indeed want to filter out the thrash as soon as possible, we also want to make sure that the anyway decent Judges go unscathed. We do not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. In addition, you have to consider the possibility that YOU MIGHT BE WRONG. So when first posting the situation, I'd advise leaving the name out until one or more members back your side up with reputable evidence as to why you're right and the Judge is in the wrong.

Hopefully this thread can help improve the tournament quality, ever so slightly, for a better over-all experience.
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-03-10, 10:13

This is an amazing idea. Though for it to be public, I'll want to put it in the Newbies forum. I'll also provide a link from my article to here in case people need an avenue of discourse about a judge.

I hope this shit starts kicking some of these judges in the pants and stops the level of Tom-foolery we saw last year. And maybe light a fire under Bushiroad to make International Judging tests.
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Werekill

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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-03-10, 14:28

The judge in my area was apparently the head judge for Atlanta's qualifier, or so he says. I feel so sorry for all players if he is an example of a "good" judge.
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3XXXDDD
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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-03-10, 14:45

By the way, do not be afraid to post any suggestions to put into the first post.
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Chestnut_Rice

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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-03-10, 17:49

Well our locals mostly know how shit works so I've never actually met a Vanguard judge. I actually question if you really need judges in Vanguard because honestly the way Bushi wrote the rules doesn't allow for much misunderstanding but I guess it can't hurt.
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Werekill

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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-03-10, 19:22

You would be surprised at the bullshit rules they pull out of their asses at events.

Apparently I can't ask my opponent how many cards he has in hand? What the fuck. This is nowhere in the floor rules.
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3XXXDDD
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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-03-10, 19:27

Werekill wrote:
You would be surprised at the bullshit rules they pull out of their asses at events.

Apparently I can't ask my opponent how many cards he has in hand? What the fuck. This is nowhere in the floor rules.

That is covered in the comprehensive rules. All Zones are public information other than the Hand and Deck (But players are allowed to know how many cards exist in either).
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Werekill

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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-03-10, 21:37

I think you may have misunderstood me. This judge is saying that I can't ask how many cards are in my opponent's hand.
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specrtalduke9387

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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-03-11, 00:00

thank's for the info for the rules and links 3XXXDDD a lot of people need to know these things before heading to a major event.
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-03-11, 04:17

If this goes too long, we might have to either clean up the thread to make searching it easier or add judge stories+names to the OP each time.
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3XXXDDD
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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-03-11, 07:45

Werekill wrote:
I think you may have misunderstood me. This judge is saying that I can't ask how many cards are in my opponent's hand.

No. I understood you. My point is that this is basic shit covered in the guide book thing. It would be easy to get out of if you printed it out.
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-03-11, 08:02

I don't think he should have to, but it might be a good idea to keep TD guidebooks with you.
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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-03-11, 08:22

Well yeah Judges should stop being retarded but it's still be better safe than sorry.
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WingZero

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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-04-03, 12:54

I always keep the TD set with me. My bag always contains a trial deck of some sort, plus my deck, seperate of course. I've a couple of bullshit thing occur, already been reported and delt with by Bushiroad.

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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-04-03, 14:54

Well this is the thread to name those judges and tell your story, dude.
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WingZero

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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-04-03, 15:25

Well I've told this first story is my most recent. It was a rather large "Bushiroad official" tournament in Toronto about a month and a half, two months(okay it was mid February). It was Round 3 of "Winners bracket" and I was playing against a Narukami player. During the match I noticed the player placing cards on top of his deck during drive checks and such(He was covering them by holding them in his hand all "protective") and every check he was getting double stands or stand heal(he got two triggers every pull) I called the judge over to check it out, he said nothing was wrong. A few more turns go by and this is continuring, Im barely hanging on and he's sitting at a comfy 4 damage with a large number of cards in hand. I call the judge over again and request he counts the deck and drop zone and all areas and to check out the situation. He says he's unable to check the deck count or anything because it would interfere with the game. So the game continues.(I asked the judge to watch closely) a few turns go by,I see the cheating, Judge doesnt), I have no shield in hand, but I have a decent field set up. I attack with both RG columns(21k) and my Vanguard Column(22k) and he uses his whole hand to guard the attacks. I draw a stand and a crit, attack for 22k and win(He had 4 heals in his damage zone too) Called the judge over again to count the deck. He had a 36 cards left in his deck. 24 in his drop zone. 8 triggers in his deck, 14 in his drop zone.

Judges Name: Sven Andrus
Head Judge: Zhao I cant remember his last name -_-
Primrose hotel in Toronto. Round3

Steps Taken: Situation was taken to the head judge after, message was sent to Bushiroad by myself and Zhao. Judge is banned from judging any Bushiroad events. And a one year ban from entering official tournaments. My Opponent Michael Chun also received a one year ban.

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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-04-03, 15:32

Holy shit OWNED HARD. And they got exactly what they deserved for cheating and not checking for cheats.
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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-04-03, 15:34

Fuck yes.

/wearelegionorsomething
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WingZero

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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-04-03, 15:41

Im still salty, I played the kid in a tournament a month later(Not official of course) and he wouldnt actually speak during the whole game. I won, he wouldnt shake my hand to I told him to go fuck himself :D)
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LittleFighterFox

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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-04-03, 16:52

Anyone would be satly over that experience. The judgement however was carried out properly, so just hope it doesn't happen again. (Lies, it happen all the time)
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Klaus

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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-04-03, 17:02

Oh it'll happen again. I've judged MtG events and had to argue with other judges over rulings.

Though this was at a sanctioned pre-release, so it's understandable something won't be too clear, but it's not hard to read the cards involved to figure it out. Critical thinking is good.

Also good on Wing for getting the judge reprimanded, definitely needs to happen more.
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WingZero

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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-04-03, 17:13

You know, I can definitely understand that people make mistakes, I mean hey we're not perfect. But jesus Christ I called the guy over numerous times and requested something different each time. A Simpel deck count while looking at even the backs of the cards would have changed everything.
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Argroh Valdios

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PostSubject: Re: (Name & Shame) Shit that Judges do   2013-04-20, 22:16

I almost hate to think about once I enter actuall competition, I'ld end up getting messed over by a judge playing favorites.
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