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 Armed Instructor Bison Deck help

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MadMarch

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PostSubject: Armed Instructor Bison Deck help   2013-04-15, 23:44

Grade 0
x1 Blackboard Ohm/ (Gardening Mole?)
x4 Triangle Cobra crit.
x4 Ruler Chameleon crit.
x4 Fortune Cat draw
x4 Dictionary Goat

Grade 1
x4 Cable Sheep
x4 Hammsuke
x4 Loop the Loop Duckbill
x2 Monoculus Tiger

Grade 2
x4 Binoculus Tiger
x4 Lamp Camel
x3 Geograph Giant

Grade 3
x4 Armed Instructor Bison
x4 Hammsuke

As a Great Nature noob this is my attempt at a Bison deck x), I just try to use the deck with the cards Alice said in the deep clan to gain little advantage every so often, though how can this deck be improved? Thanks :)
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Kagami Ts

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PostSubject: Re: Armed Instructor Bison Deck help   2013-04-16, 00:02

So Far this deck looks good. How about trying to add some compass lion for beatdown ?
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Zoologist A

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PostSubject: Re: Armed Instructor Bison Deck help   2013-05-20, 12:25

I've been thinking about doing this deck myself since I have 4 Bison sitting in my binder and the Cable Sheep and a lot of other stuff except Tigers/Leo-pald.

I was really stuck with the secondary G3 slot, initially I thought Hammsuke, but then thought that G2 Hammsuke was better because when added to hand it is extra guard if needed, which G3 is not unless with PG. So when I looked at other G3 options the only other ones that came up as viable were Magnet Crocodile and Leo-Pald.

Magnet Crocodile would almost require that Silver Wolf is run so as to hit 20k without doping and able to hit Hamburger time with doping.

On the other hand, Leo-Pald wouldn't specifically require anything special to work with it, but it would compete with Bison for the Vanguard Circle.

I'm wondering if the deck could work with Leo-Pald/Bison where you could simply ride which ever one you get first and play accordingly. i.e. Using heavy counterblast while Bison is out, or if Leo goes out first, letting him use counterblast more carefully and maintain a field with his LB and then switch to Bison to extend the use of counterblasts when you are running low.

That could work depending on how you felt about not using Bison all the time and you wouldn't need to feel pressured to run Silver Wolf.

Using Magnet Crocodile means you get an effective RG G3 and can deal 3 Stages against Hamburger-time if you dope with at least a 7k booster. But you won't be getting easy 10k abuse without those Silver Wolves so I guess it's a Meta-Call as to whether or not that will be an issue for you or not. I always liked Magnet Crocodile/Silver Wolf as it let me focus on doping the other column or my Vanguard Booster.


In the Grade 2 line-up, I felt torn between Hammsuke G2 and Lamp Camels for the use of counterblasts again. I don't have any Binoculus Tigers (for shame, I know) so I run four copies of Compass Lion instead, which makes Hammsuke's preferable for their sustainability since Stamp Sea Otter defeats the purpose of Bison.



Even while I'm talking about this I am coming up with more problems and inconsistencies in the deck than good news, which is depressing. The deck feels too "Forced" like I'm shoe-horning in Bison at the detriment to the deck as a whole, which is not at all how it should feel if Bison were a true trump card. Maybe Bison just isn't good enough to compete with other builds within the clan?

With all the variety and thought that seems to go into Great Nature releases, I don't want to feel like it's Leo-Pald or nothing, but that is how it feels sometimes.

I might just need to go away and rethink this with a clearer head...
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Dakota

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PostSubject: Re: Armed Instructor Bison Deck help   2013-05-20, 17:30

Well, the deck looks like a solid idea. I've only played Great Nature a bit, and never a Bison build, but I would like to suggest Stamp Sea Otter as an idea. Given any power increase effect in Great Nature (as they're all 4k), he becomes a 10k booster on any attacker, and he doesn't get retired, meaning you can keep doing it. And with Compass lions, you can always be sure your Coiling Duckbills will go off. Considering Monoculus Tiger has to attack, I'd suggest dropping it for the Stamp Sea Otters if you did.
While Lamp Camel is nice (as with Bison's effect, you can use it every turn for practically nothing), it ALSO has to hit. Considering your abundance of 6k boosters and 9k attackers, it's a bit weird if you can't get off a power boost. That said, it's still not an awful idea. Consider Multimeter Giraffe, though, as if I recall correctly, it's the 8k/11k grade 2 attacker. Also, in this, I'd replace the 3 Geograph Giants with Compass Lions, as Compass Lion is not something you want to flood your field with, but it's also an 11k attacker (with any of your 6ks and a 4k power boost, it suddenly hits for 3 stages on most things). Another reason Stamp Sea Otter could be helpful (you could keep doing it over and over). Also, if you point Compass Lion's skill at Stamp Sea Otter, it still won't be retired, so if you want to keep what's on your field, you can.
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Hawky

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PostSubject: Re: Armed Instructor Bison Deck help   2013-05-22, 07:06

I feel that there is quite alot of draw power in the deck already that you don't need draws/don't need to run alot of draws so maybe run 4 Stands instead?
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thym4n

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PostSubject: Re: Armed Instructor Bison Deck help   2013-05-23, 20:02

Hawky wrote:
I feel that there is quite alot of draw power in the deck already that you don't need draws/don't need to run alot of draws so maybe run 4 Stands instead?

I agree. In general, after great natures dope a lot, using stand triggers does take advantage of the doping ability. You get to make an additional attack with the still-doped unit. If it's going to die anyways, might as well stand it and take advantage of it's power-boost
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mastermune

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PostSubject: Re: Armed Instructor Bison Deck help   2013-05-23, 20:08

Depends on what you dope, usually it will be a stamp other or hammskue G1 which in this case are kinda useless to stand, if you dope something else then maybe, but for the most part i would go crit......now a polaris deck thats another story.
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thym4n

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PostSubject: Re: Armed Instructor Bison Deck help   2013-05-23, 20:18

well, are you gonna be standing a booster? :P
becuase that's what otter really is for...
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thym4n

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PostSubject: Re: Armed Instructor Bison Deck help   2013-05-23, 20:21

sorry for the double post, but when i was agreeing with hawkey, i meant with the stand triggers. Play what you're comfortable with, but i personally think that stand triggers would be the best ones to put in this situation
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: Armed Instructor Bison Deck help   2013-05-23, 20:48

thym4n wrote:
sorry for the double post, but when i was agreeing with hawkey, i meant with the stand triggers. Play what you're comfortable with, but i personally think that stand triggers would be the best ones to put in this situation
Cop outs.
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Zoologist A

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PostSubject: Re: Armed Instructor Bison Deck help   2013-05-24, 06:44

This is a deck that I would be quite interested in running, but I just don't think that the trump card and added mechanics of the deck stand up to much. Great Nature doping for high stages of power is a fantastic mechanic and being able to make use of that mechanic on the cheap with Bison is the best use I can fathom for it, but Tigers already get the dope for free, so Bison really is for double-dipping on one unit for a super boost.

Using the unflip to get use out of Lamp Camel, I thought was a really good idea, but then I realised that it was watering down the main attributes of the deck (consistent and cheap high power columns) for a gimmick that other decks (Kirara/Hani NG being the prime example) do much better. Like Alice and other people who know this game often say. There is little point in making a deck build that is just a weaker version of something another clan or build can already do better. The point and trick is to something new.

Therefore I think Lamp Camel is not the best fit, even if his free for this deck. The G2 line-up is already very tight with Binoculus and Lion being so strong for this clan and being best advised to max out on (maybe Lion at 3). That leaves 2-4 more slots for G2, depending on how many total G2 you are planning on using and whether you use 3 or 4 Lion. The only other G2 I can see working advantageously in this deck would be Hammsuke or Armadillo (S-interceptor), both of which would prefer Silver Wolf in the line-up, which then brings attention to using Magnet Crocodile in the G3.

But I think Bison and Leo-Pald are best used together to alternate their effects as they are required (between unflipping counterblast for Hammsuke's/Revival and Dopes or Using Counterblast on Leo-Pald's revival). Which leaves no room for Crocodile unless you only run Bison at 2 which then almost defeats the purpose of using him at all.

His effect is great, but he just isn't good with his own clan because other cards push him out of the picture. Perhaps this is one for Alice's Misconception Corner? I don't know...

One avenue I thought of that hasn't been touched on yet are the damage exploders. They are a CB 1 to push into LB early and perfect targets for Tigers to retire for a free unflip 1 and return a damage checked card to the deck with Bison. The G1 would fit okay in the line-up, possibly at 2 instead of Monoculus Tiger? Or maybe instead of 1 Duckbill and 1 Bison if you wanted to try going with 7 G3s for this build. The G2 Damage exploder could also work, but would once again ask for Silver Wolf which the deck doesn't really have room for if we are running max Pencil Squire.


Given this new line of thinking, I the best line up for Bison that I can come up with right now is...




Grade 0 = 17
x1 Blackboard Ohm/Flask Marmoset
x4 Triangle Cobra crit.
x3 Ruler Chameleon crit.
x4 Eraser Alpaca stand.
x1 Alarm Chicken stand.
x4 Dictionary Goat

Grade 1 = 15
x4 Cable Sheep
x4 Hammsuke
x3 Loop the Loop Duckbill
x2 Failure Scientist, Ponkichi
x2 Monoculus Tiger

Grade 2 = 11
x4 Binoculus Tiger
x4 Compass Lion
x3 Geograph Giant

Grade 3 = 7
x4 School Hunter, Leo-Pald
x3 Armed Instructor, Bison


7 crit and 5 stand because you have a total of 14 targets to stand for 10K+ on their own, which is quite nice. I'd have said 8/4, but then I don't think you'd see the stands as often as you'd like. It's up for debate.




Unfortunately my true opinion is that, as much as I really do like the art and idea behind this card. I just think any build that uses him is inferior because it doesn't like Stamp Sea Otter and can't make the most of the G2 8k units without Silver Wolf. Pure Tiger builds with unretirable targets and 16k/18k/20k columns with Silver Wolf just seem superior to this. I would love for someone to prove me wrong on this though.
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Alarrick

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PostSubject: Re: Armed Instructor Bison Deck help   2013-06-10, 08:32

I would first like to say that I am not an expert Great Nature player and only play them in friendly games. (I stick to MLB and Nova Grappler for competitive play.) But this is the list I would personally recommend for an Armed Instructor, Bison deck.

Subject: Armed Instructor Bison Deck help Tue 16 Apr - 5:44
Grade 0
x1 Blackboard Parrot - Allows for additional draw at no cost other than sliding to soul. I personally prefer him over Gardening Mole.
x4 Triangle Cobra crit.
x4 Ruler Chameleon crit.
x4 Fortune Cat draw
x4 Dictionary Goat
-- I prefer to run crits with Bison simply because it forces your opponent to guard the Vanguard more heavily which in turn diminishes their hand making it more difficult to guard against the pumped up rearguards.

Grade 1
x4 Cable Sheep - A necessity for Bison because you will likely be relying on the ability to keep the pressure going longer than your opponent rather than winning with a single blowout.
x4 Hammsuke - Hammsuke and Bison work togethor extremely well, because you will always have the counterblast to use Hammsuke's skill.
x4 Coiling Duckbill - Extra cards in hand are a requirement for Bison because you rely upon keeping the damage and power flowing well past your opponent.
x2 Monoculus Tiger - 7k Boost or a pump up if absolutely necessary.

Grade 2
x4 Binoculus Tiger - The pump up king of Great Nature. Charging a rearguard and then retiring for Bison's limit break. Binoculus is what makes this deck good.
x4 Hammsuke - The grade two Hammsuke is outstanding, in my opinion even better than the three simply because you can add guard to your hand for counterblast one.
x3 Compass Lion - Gives you a reliable way of retiring your rearguards to flip back damage using Bison's limit break.

Grade 3
x4 Armed Instructor Bison - Obviously the center point of the deck. Used simply because his limit break lets you keep the abilities flowing.
x4 Hammsuke - Used primarily for field consistancy. Basically negates the cost of retiring a rearguard via skill for only counterblast one. With Bison's limit break, he essentially just gives you multiple pumped up consecutive turns.

Winning Image: Essentially the best way to win with a Bison deck (In my own experience anyway) Is to reliably outlast your opponent. The deck is essentially a stall deck and you will be able to keep the torrent of skills going long past your opponent. In short, draw as much as you possibly can and keep up a reliable guard, then just slug away and counterblast to your heart's content.

Strengths: You will likely be able to keep your number flow consistently high far longer than your opponent due to your ability to reuse counterblast like crazy. Bison is also one of the most draw reliant Great Nature decks, and you should have the guard to keep a consistent defense long past a good portion of your opponents.

Weaknesses: Field destruction can completely screw you over. If you opponents retire units such as Compass Lion, Binoculus Tiger, and Monoculus Tiger you will find that despite your plethora of open counterblasts, you will struggle to pump up rearguards enough to keep good numbers flowing. Your other greatest weakness is hand advantage, specifically in the form of Bermuda Triangle and Oracle Think Tank. If your opponent can burn through your hand faster than you burn through their's, then you lose your greatest advantage.
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