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 Throwing a monkey wrench in a broken system

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Vulcanpeace

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PostSubject: Throwing a monkey wrench in a broken system   2013-05-07, 11:09

When I first started Vanguard it seemed like a pretty balanced game every clan had their own strengths and weaknesses
and the ratio of one clan fighting any other clan were more than usually 1:1,
however as I learned more about this game and as the age of the game progressed the balance shifted
maybe it's only recently been like this with
cross rides making other clans and deck types much less competitive(not that they aren't,they're just less)
lack of support for many clans and over support for others.
Balance breaking cards like Dragonic Overlord, The End,MLB,and...you know now that i think about it this kinda falls under point 1
but there's also a chance that it's always been like this and i was just to noob to see it,
What I wanna ask is:
"how would one go about shifting back the balance in Cray"
I understand that suggestions won't change much,but never forget that everything we own started out as an idea,
Would you,
ban specific cards? suggest a new booster that brings in strong new units to the lower tiers? give every clan and every deck type a cross ride? or do something completely different that no one ever thought of?
please forgive my ignorance if by some small chance I'm wrong,maybe this game is balanced and I'm just a nut job

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MonolithAngel

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PostSubject: Re: Throwing a monkey wrench in a broken system   2013-05-07, 11:24

Vanguard is an incredibly balanced game when compared to the likes of Yu-Gi-Oh, MTG, and even Duel Masters. The problem is that Vanguard also tends to be chance based; while other aforementioned games are also chance based, Vanguard highlights this in the drive checks that the game is based upon.

However, other card games are just as chance reliant. "OTK" (One Turn Kill) decks in Yu-Gi-Oh are still prevalent in today's metagame and basically, getting a good hand in Yu-Gi-Oh is an instant win. Vanguard is much more balanced in that it takes skill in not only manipulating the game state but also reducing the variability that is produced in your deck; the chance that you will draw a perfect hand is much lower than drawing the perfect hand in Yu-Gi-Oh.

The only problem in Vanguard is that the game is based on gaining an advantage over your opponent; typically, you win the game because your opponent does not have enough cards to guard with. Therefore, using cards that give your an immense defensive or offensive advantage offsets this balance in favor of the player who uses such cards... like cross rides.

The best course of action for Vanguard to take is to eliminate the cross ride status completely; no amount of support to other clans is going to balance the game unless you give those clans incredibly broken units as well with equal offensive and defensive prowess.

Yes, Bushiroad tends to release more booster packs to the clans used by the main characters (which frustrates me to hell) but this does not make a clan more or less competitive than the ones used by the main characters. My Dark Irregulars received much less support than Gold Paladins and I will beat the fuck out of them any day with Reijy.

Vanguard will be balanced when Hamburger-Time don't exist.
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ResourcefulGeneral

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PostSubject: Re: Throwing a monkey wrench in a broken system   2013-05-07, 22:50

The only solution to delicious hamburgers that doesn't cause a barbecue arms race where everyone and their dog needs hamburgers is to remove hamburgers from the menu entirely. Less restrictively, change the +2k power for having the prior form in the soul so that it only applies during your turn.

Some of the breakrides appear to read "(this ability is active if you have four or more damage): When a <<Clan>> rides this unit, your opponent loses the game. If an opponent loses the game in this way, he may counterblast 2 to cry futily"
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MonolithAngel

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PostSubject: Re: Throwing a monkey wrench in a broken system   2013-05-08, 00:20

ResourcefulGeneral wrote:
The only solution to delicious hamburgers that doesn't cause a barbecue arms race where everyone and their dog needs hamburgers is to remove hamburgers from the menu entirely. Less restrictively, change the +2k power for having the prior form in the soul so that it only applies during your turn.

Some of the breakrides appear to read "(this ability is active if you have four or more damage): When a <<Clan>> rides this unit, your opponent loses the game. If an opponent loses the game in this way, he may counterblast 2 to cry futily"

hahahaha this was hilarious! Good Cold War reference, I see what you did there.

In the TCG metagame, a major concern would be The End, MLB and PBO for their ridiculous defense (as stated by ResourcefulGeneral). And yeah, just get rid of their static +2K boost.

I quit Vanguard because of Break Rides. 'Nuff said. Woot casual decks here I come :D
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Hawky

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PostSubject: Re: Throwing a monkey wrench in a broken system   2013-05-08, 03:57

However when you look at the japanese metagame there isn't that much breakrides that top. Perhaps they find breakrides are too vanilla until they hit limitbreak and people just play around them.
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Lich_Lord_Fortissimo

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PostSubject: Re: Throwing a monkey wrench in a broken system   2013-05-08, 04:09

> Implying Japan can master cards a few days after they come out
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3XXXDDD
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PostSubject: Re: Throwing a monkey wrench in a broken system   2013-05-08, 08:32

Ban the problems completely and remember a few golden rules.

1) More bullshit doesn't justify the previous bullshit. It is still bullshit.

2) Counters aren't an argument. By the virtue of the fact counters exist for these card is essentially a statement of acceptance that those cards are problems.

3) Balancing a broken card with a vanilla archetype (I'm looking at you Labrador) is awful and incredibly boring design.
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Vulcanpeace

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PostSubject: Re: Throwing a monkey wrench in a broken system   2013-05-09, 03:48

I wouldn't go so far as banning all cross rides
My stance:
all cross rides should only be able to use their insane effects if their previous form is in the soul
also using their effect sends them to the drop zone after the turn and
your vanguard goes back to being that unit's previous form

I feel this makes them just as useful and make players think twice before filling half their G3 line up with Hamburger-Time.
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newbishop

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PostSubject: Re: Throwing a monkey wrench in a broken system   2013-05-09, 06:20

The problem is that a Vanilla Hamburger Is nearly as bad as o e with an effect, so they can just forget the effect and sit on the 13k all game. Boring as fuck, yes. A win against a typical deck, unfortunately yes.
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: Throwing a monkey wrench in a broken system   2013-05-10, 18:23

As for if it's always been this way, I already made a thread detailing the metas. English was balanced for a really long time but Japanese was never balanced. Which is most likely why they were more accepting of unbalanced bullshit since that's not why they got into the game.
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