WE ARE ALL FUCKED

Alice wrote:

I quit Vanguard.

I'll still be available for chatting about personal stuff, but I stopped playing this game. About to sell off my Stern, Spikes, and Megacolonies.

I would hold off on that until the new list comes in, I'm fairly sure that bushi made these changes as a result of the planet Cray all out war competition. (Almost no Kagero in the finals) Therefore this may be their attempt at putting cards on a probation period to see how the meta turns out. Once bushi gets off their acid trip they will probably re-add Dragonic Overlord, The End and probably Dauntless as well.

Also, would suck to see you quit this game. :(

VANGUARD, USO JANAIZE.

Did they give any reason as to why the unbanning? I mean outside

"The reason for the unrestriction was due to the
amount of them used during the unrestricted
tournaments held during the few events."

In other words, because it didn't win the unrestricted tournament, it's K all of a sudden?

Bushi has already made many blunders, so the fact you're freaking out over this and still playing it seems to not really be an issue.

I still play, but never competitively since it doesn't exist around here and is always handled horribly and I'm avoiding spending as much as possible to make decks of whatever interests me.

>Descendant restricted
Neato
>Silent Tom back on the menu
Nice
>unlimited Ji Endo
>Barcgal still restricted from being the First Vanguard
rip japan ;-;7

Guess I'll be sticking to casual/semi-competitive CFV like I always have.

Well, to be fair I had been testing Dragonic Overlord, The End against the JPN Narukamis and Narukamis have the upper hand. And I didn't test it, but I believe it is probably outclassed by the new GP (thanks to Gancelot) as well. So if the power creep is assumed to proceed, there's really no reason for the "old" Dragonic Overlord, The End to be restricted in the JPN meta. Now what remains to be seen is what kind of damage to the meta can do Dauntless Drive and Dragonic Overlord, The End together, along with any other support they get in BT11.
Narukami should have been further restricted, the deck has so many broken grade 3s that only playing 2 Descendants doesn't seem to restrict them much.

We still need to get Dragonic Overlord, The End and MLB restricted for the English meta, they have no opponents until BT10 comes out.

Further power creep does not validate previous power creep. You're simply stating that a card is mediocre simply due to an existence of card that took it even further.

3XXXDDD wrote:

Further power creep does not validate previous power creep. You're simply stating that a card is mediocre simply due to an existence of card that took it even further.

On that note though, would power creep be justified if each clan had access to cards of that level?

Ex: lets assume that each clan got a card that was a strong as Dragonic Overlord, The End in their respective tribes, would the fact that each clans overall power level make up for the fact that all the other builds of each clan are strictly worse competitively than the one Dragonic Overlord, The End build that each clan has?

I am not considering Dragonic Overlord, The End mediocre. I am stating the obvious that the power creep will not be undone and, in the best possible scenario, all we can hope is that the game can be balanced around the current power level of top decks like JPN Narukami and Gold Paladins.

Dragonic Overlord, The End is broken if compared to the decks we were used to months ago, but right now it has been shown that 13k vanguards are not the be-all end-all, and that other decks can match or surpass that level. So I think the only realistic hope we can have right now is that all the other clans can be brought up to that level so we have a balanced meta.

Most grade 3s in early sets were crap, we had stuff like 12k attackers (either when boosted or when attacking the vanguard) which were just slightly better than the grade 2s we had at the time and equal or worse to some grade 2s we have now. Dragonic Overlord, The End, MLB, Gancelot, Dragger, etc, are setting the power level for what we can expect from a tier 1 grade 3 from now on. As long as they balance the other clans' grade 3s around that power level, and as long as we don't get to a point where 90% of games are over by turn 5, I don't think the game will be broken.

And I mean each clan having access to several builds on that level, not just 1. Kagero will have Dragonic Overlord, The End, Blockade and possibly some other Dauntless builds, Narukami has several great grade 3s, etc. Yes, sadly we do have to say goodbye to pretty much every Grade 3 from the early sets not named Dragonic Overlord, The End, MLB, Palamedes, CEO, etc, but that's how power creep on a TCG works. At least they've been giving Hamburger-Time to some older cards so they have new viable builds, maybe they keep that trend.

VesperGhoul wrote:

3XXXDDD wrote:

Further power creep does not validate previous power creep. You're simply stating that a card is mediocre simply due to an existence of card that took it even further.

On that note though, would power creep be justified if each clan had access to cards of that level?

Ex: lets assume that each clan got a card that was a strong as Dragonic Overlord, The End in their respective tribes, would the fact that each clans overall power level make up for the fact that all the other builds of each clan are strictly worse competitively than the one Dragonic Overlord, The End build that each clan has?

It then turns into Yugioh.

VesperGhoul wrote:

On that note though, would power creep be justified if each clan had access to cards of that level?

it wouldn't be justified IMO, because the new options would be more powerful than old options, making older options invalid or at least preventing them from being optimal choices altogether. when new cards come out, I prefer them to be new options rather than replacements, you know?

AegisCrow wrote:

VesperGhoul wrote:

On that note though, would power creep be justified if each clan had access to cards of that level?

it wouldn't be justified IMO, because the new options would be more powerful than old options, making older options invalid or at least preventing them from being optimal choices altogether. when new cards come out, I prefer them to be new options rather than replacements, you know?

Have you ever played ANY trading card game? If older options would remain optimal choices they wouldn't sell much after a couple years, so each company has 2 options:
- Block formats, making older cards illegal after a while
- Power increasing in each new set, along with restrictions on older cards

Second option is much better IMO because at least they can release improvements to older decks so that you can re-use at least part of it, instead of throwing it all in the trash.

There is this thing called Aesthetics and Theme and are essentially the driving force of sales of any card game due to casuals, who play because they enjoy using their favorite units not because of winning.

Vanguard managed to balance this with a very strict coherent foundation that resided not only in the underlying Numbers game but also skill balancing (I believe Alice mentioned this somewhere how 1CB = 0.5SB, How 2CB = +1, 3CB = Unrestricted/Powerful +1) and then the theme or aesthetics were built upon that. Every deck in Vanguard does essentially the same thing, some just do it a cooler fashion.

I mean one of the reasons Yugioh is still selling, despite due to being a huge mess of a game and a number of dedicated fans is because of the not-so-great-but-very-cool themes that appeal to casuals in the booster sets. Competitive Players buy very, very, very little product. (Yes it is true that buying singles does add demand to the second hand market and therefore to the primary market but even then they only spend one large amount every six months unlike some casuals who can afford to buy boxes upon boxes seeking cool cards or some addictive thrill out of opening).

Please stop using the same tired old bullshit argument. It is complete nonsense.

I'm going to lock this but be grateful, I almost banned a number of people instead.