Pale Moon repeat offense.

Rather than explaining before listing and confusing you all...

G0:

1x Girl Who Crossed the Gap
4x Poison Juggler (Crit)
4x Candy Clown (Heal)
4x Rainbow Magician (Draw)
4x Cracker Magician (Stand)

G1:
4x Turquoise Beast Tamer
1x Dark Metal Bicorn
4x Hades Hypnotist
3x Midnight Bunny
2x Purple Trapezist

G2:
4x Crimson Beast Tamer
4x Dancing Princess of the Night Sky
2x Drawing Dread

G3:
4x Sword Magician, Sara
3x Nightmare Doll, Alice
2x Midnight Invader

Now, this decklist has some odd numbers... The reason being I want to fit 55 cards into 50 slots somehow. What I would add if it wasn't a 50 card max...

1x Dark Metal Bicorn
1x Midnight Bunny
2x Purple Trapezist
1x Nightmare Doll, Alice

Dark Metal Bicorn is there to boost Sara for 21k (Similar to Wonder Boy in Spikes) - Turquoise can do it with Crimson in soul, so I only need 2 Dark Metal, but I prefer Turquoise behind Midnight Invader or Drawing Dread. The rest of the deck should speak well for itself and what it's meant to do - Sword Magician Alice's around, if a Bunny boost hits, pull Trapezist out of the soul behind Alice, put Alice in with Trapezist's effect and pull her right back out - 1 Bunny Boost Hit = 16k Column with Alice threat again.

This deck is meant to attack. And attack.

This post isn't meant to just give ideas - I want to know what everyone thinks I should cut from my 55 cards I want in the deck.

Also - as HORRIBLE as Mirror Demon is, I'm considering using him in place of Drawing Dread as my last 2 G2's - Same as Bunny, one hit and it's a 16k attack for 1 CB, and this deck runs enough cards to boost him for decent numbers. Once more, opinions on this would be much loved.

EDIT - Also thinking about putting Hungry Clown back in in place of Drawing Dread for more good boosting targets for Bunny - 9k attack against 11k vanguards helps Bunny more threatening.

Why Bicorn if you have so many Dancing? You'll get Beast Tamer in the soul just fine. Especially if you put in more Trapezist. What am I reading

Alice wrote:

Why Bicorn if you have so many Dancing? You'll get Beast Tamer in the soul just fine. Especially if you put in more Trapezist. What am I reading

Turquoise is best set behind rearguards to get the better numbers - I average 2 a game, just like any other 4 of, and I prefer her boosting RG columns, though I could see dropping Bicorn... it just feels like a consistency drop.

And yes, I'm not an idiot - 4 of each Crimson and Dancing is nearly a guarantee I'll have Crimson in my soul. Obviously it's intentional.

Drawing Dread is a bit over-rated. You have to have a 9000 Booster to have it hit Stage 2 and as you said you only average 2 Turquoise a game.

If Pale Moon had a Doreen clone it would be really good. Stack with your virtual Poet clone to get the same columns as DI. Actually, I wonder how close you can build PM and DI to each other.

They're pretty much identical as far as resources for acquiring soul go. The only major difference is that Dark Irregulars have a lot of center line/Vanguard circle stuff that just superbuffs when you have a sizable soul, and with Pale Moon there's actually a point where soul charging will stop actively helping you in some games.

3XXXDDD wrote:

Drawing Dread is a bit over-rated. You have to have a 9000 Booster to have it hit Stage 2 and as you said you only average 2 Turquoise a game.

Well 2 Turquoise is for Rearguard Columns, but still... I do like DD sometimes, but I've been testing out between Mirror Demon, DD and Hungry Clown and... I just can't get a feel for which one is performing best... I'm sadly thinking it might be (blech) Mirror Demon, since with Purple Trapezist in soul it's just another 16k column if it hits, which DD and Hungry just can't do.

I know It sounds crazy but try Carrie.

3XXXDDD wrote:

I know It sounds crazy but try Carrie.

You sure that's a good idea when the deck has Alice and Bunny, and wants both active? Those are skills you might actually get to use multiple times in a game.

Not trying to dispute without testing itself, but wouldn't Cerberus work just as well for that slot? 10k vanilla is a pretty okay choice generally, unless you literally have no space for one.

He's just monkey-see-monkey-do-ing what a PM topper did. I find the choice to be retarded.

ScarletWeather wrote:

3XXXDDD wrote:

I know It sounds crazy but try Carrie.

You sure that's a good idea when the deck has Alice and Bunny, and wants both active? Those are skills you might actually get to use multiple times in a game.

Not trying to dispute without testing itself, but wouldn't Cerberus work just as well for that slot? 10k vanilla is a pretty okay choice generally, unless you literally have no space for one.

Yeah, I'd sooner run Hungry Clown - I at least would USE that effect - though it's not a good effect in any way...

Though Cerberus would let Purple Trapezist boost for good numbers behind someone other than Alice.

Alice wrote:

He's just monkey-see-monkey-do-ing what a PM topper did. I find the choice to be retarded.

Actually no, this was just something I tried myself a while ago. I wish I could remember the build. Basically thought process is 9 is easier to scale and more on hits mean something is getting through even if said on hit is expensive.

If only Mirror Demon had 9000 instead of 8000.

Anyway, Cerberus is a good idea because it will generally be hitting even without boost (which makes sense with Sarah).

3XXXDDD wrote:

Alice wrote:

He's just monkey-see-monkey-do-ing what a PM topper did. I find the choice to be retarded.

Actually no, this was just something I tried myself a while ago. I wish I could remember the build. Basically thought process is 9 is easier to scale and more on hits mean something is getting through even if said on hit is expensive.

If only Mirror Demon had 9000 instead of 8000.

Anyway, Cerberus is a good idea because it will generally be hitting even without boost (which makes sense with Sarah).

I understand the reasoning behind it, but I'd sooner run Hungry Clown - I would never use Carrie's skill, I need that CB open for Bunny and, to a lesser extent, Alice (I do say lesser extent for a reason - Bunny makes for columns without waste - stick her in the soul and Purple Trapezist takes her place boosting for the full column. Alice, though, can't pull out Purple into her space in the front and needs to have Midnight Invader in the soul, something this deck has real problems pulling off, to capitalize on since it needs a G3 on the field still for Sara.)

I have had TOO many people tell me 'omg, run Lequier' for one reason or another - be it that...

"One use of her skill and it's the same as Sara anyways!" or "She's obviously the best, look at how much she costs!" (That one ticks me off more than most...)

I have tested and tested back and forth with Lequier and honestly I hate the card. I think it's as garbage in the deck as Libra is in Oracle Think Tank and has no place. Sure, her skill is great, but Sara does the same damn thing, make an easy 21k column which, unless it's do or die, is either a PG or NG scenario.

Lequier can get bigger, sure sure, but again the scenario doesn't change. PG or NG. Her power boost beyond the first is not worth noting. The only place she has a place right now is in a Pee-Ka-Boo combo deck (If you don't know what it does, look it up, it's essentially 3 hits of her effect for 1 CB, 1 SB) which I will argue doesn't have the same raw power that a Sara/Alice build holds.

"Oh but her LB is soooo broken, +4 for 3CB AND 4 hits of her effect!"

Please, call me when you ever get this effect off PROPERLY, and I'll come congratulate you. An extra G3 in the soul through random soul charging or having to ride over something (Which unless you run something fucking odd-ball like Sara/Lequier you'd have to ride a horrible G3 to begin with and then STILL you'd have to -1 for the second G3 ride.) for part 1, having a G2 worth calling out of your soul for part 2 (Unless you spam your soul, you won't have a worth while one about half of the time - Calling out a Crimson Beast Tamer when it's the only one in your soul isn't good - and the only way to spam your soul for your G2 and G3 - unless you did a second G3 ride - is to fill your G2 slot with Dancing Princess and Elephant Juggler, leaving you NO good G2 ANYWAY) And then a worth while G0 - Your staring Vanguard works with Girl Who Crossed the Gap, but if you already used her effect once earlier to put her IN, you'd need to have either healed or be at 5 damage without using a single other counterblast to get her effect again without Purple Trapezist (Which, by the way, means no Bunny or Alice in that buiild since all you CB needs to go to Lequier and GWCtG).

This is really turning ranty, so I'm going to stop there. If y'all want, consider that warning - DO NOT Recommend Lequier to me. Ever. Do not argue her value as a good card or anything, I've tested and tested and she is NOT that great.

Quote :

I have tested and tested back and forth with Lequier and honestly I hate the card.

Let the hate flow in because I whole-heartedly agree. I cannot make myself like Lequier. It feels like one of those too little too late cards and it costs a large sum too. I'd rather just Sarah-combo and use Alice

Alice wrote:

Quote :

I have tested and tested back and forth with Lequier and honestly I hate the card.

Let the hate flow in because I whole-heartedly agree. I cannot make myself like Lequier. It feels like one of those too little too late cards and it costs a large sum too. I'd rather just Sarah-combo and use Alice

It's effect is amazing in theory - In practice it Just. Plain. SUCKS. Horrible beyond words and there is no redeeming it unless they make something like Dancing Princess that let's you fetch two of ANY grade for the low low cost of 2 soul blast.... which in theory actually isn't a horrible idea... hm. If they make a card that lets you soul blast to search your deck for any card and add it to soul, then and ONLY then will Lequier be good.

Time to be bored and get some more replies to this thread and hopefully more input.

G0 -

Right now, I'm running it 4/4/4/4 for checks and... I'm just not liking the draw triggers as much as I would wish to like them. They just don't do it for me in any way - Yes, awesome since they're always a 'good' check, but this deck isn't going to stand up to the likes of GP and such being 'good' - I'm wanting to run it 4/8/4 until I get a new stand trigger, then run it 4/6/6. I know that stands are unilaterally worse than crits for most decks, but with on-hit threats it just feels more productive. To sum it up, please give your opinions on -

4/4/4/4
4/8/4 (no draw, 8 crit)
4/6/6 (No draw)

G1 -

Here is where I'm having my most issues. There are 5 very soild G1's that this deck capitalizes on (one of which, Alice, I don't want to hear it, it DOES help and I'll explain why)

Turquoise Beast Tamer
Midnight Bunny
Hades Hypnotist
Purple Trapezist
Dark-Metal Bicorn

Turquoise - I don't think this needs much explaining. 9k booster and that's that - Boosts Midnight Invader and Sarah for great numbers... The only drawback, and this is slim at BEST is that I feel the NEED to put her behind Invader - Sarah is enough of a threat being the VG most of the time and midnight needs to hit 21 to even be worth running in the deck (outside of him loving to eat stand triggers all day long) - Either way, she needs to be a MINIMUM of a 3 of in the deck... But 3 or 4? I can't decide, and it's more because I need room for everything else.

Midnight Bunny - This girl does serve only one purpose in the deck, but that purpose is a necessity to keep decks on their toes - she eliminates the gambit of taking the first damage in hopes of a check. If they take it, she swaps with Purple in the soul, Purple swaps the attacker into soul and right back out, and you have a bare minimum of a 16k column unless you're STUCK with Dancing Princess. It may not seem like much, eliminating that ONE gambit but math is my best friend.

Alice's numbers being used for the fact that, on average they will be about correct

33 cards in deck, 11 triggers remaining, I swing for VG with my first attack. 1 in 3 times that they TAKE the damage, it will be a trigger - with a MINIMUM of 2 attacks following, that's 2 stages of shielding saved right there. Accounting for the fact that this deck can and very often WILL swing for 4 attacks, that's 3 stages of shielding, assuming the final attack can even hit the VG (It's approximately 50/50 between a Sarah Trigger'd second attack and a stand triggered - Sarah triggered leaves me at BEST looking at 12k) - Even if it's only 1/3, saving the up to 3 stages of shielding is a MASSIVE difference. Denying that simple gambit makes Bunny more than worth the 3 slots in deck I have allotted to her, though I'm debating bringing her down to 2 to make room for other threats.

Purple Trapezist - Her MAIN role in this version of the deck is to really strike home the idea of denying the 'first damage gambit' - Without her, Bunny isn't the threat she can be. She does serve other purposes, fixing a bad column and what-not... but afterwards, she sits there. In a deck that doesn't abuse Magician of Quantum Mechanics, she just feels like dead weight outside of being a very aggressive threat. I run 2 at the moment and have no intentions of changing it.

Hades Hypnotist - Perfect Guard, Running 4, Moving on.

Dark Metal Bicorn - This one is the only card in the deck I feel I need to defend more than Bunny. He really does only have one purpose - boosting Sarah for perfect numbers, but what more reason do you NEED? Yes yes, Turquoise does it better, but I feel like I need to reserve her for RG columns. If I see two, that's awesome and then it works, but that doesn't come until later game sometimes and it just feels like it's not enough. I do consider running him at 1 or 2, but that's only if I keep Turquoise at 4 - it's purely for consistency, which in ANY card game, lowering fluctuations based on chance is one major aspect of deck building.

At the MOMENT, I'm running it...

4 Turquoise
4 Hades
3 Bunny
2 Purple
1 Bicorn

Leaving me at 14 total... I like the ratio, especially since if I need one piece of the puzzle to work, I simply drop an extra CB on another Dancing Princess, pull it to my soul and the Girl Who Crossed the Gap pulls it out. Input is the best way to fine tune decks even further though.

G2 -

Crimson Beast Tamer and Dancing Princess of the Night Sky at 4 each, no questions here are needed, but I have 1 slot left for something else. At the moment, it's Hungry clown and honestly, I intend to keep it that way. 9k power makes Bunny hit better and I prefer my 6k and unders in the soul, not on the battlefield if I can help it. He usually just intercepts away when I get a better RG swinger.

G3 -

4 Sarah, mandatory for the build
4 Alice - Debating switching one back down to another G2 or 1... but it just doesn't feel right.
2 Midnight Invader. No room for more, sadly =(

The problem I see is that you'e trying to do far too much in one deck; It looks to me like you're trying to force in the general points of Tamer Beatdown along with Sword Magician Sara pressure.

I personally think that the Turquoise Beast Tamers are completely unnecessary at least when you factor in Magician of Quantum Mechanics & Jumping Glenn which in all honesty is far too good to pass up when you can make Nightmare Doll Alice Stage 3 against a Rear. That will do much more for the deck than the occasional Stage 3 Midnight Invader Columns. It's like a rather cost-efficient Dragonic Overlord combo.

I believe you're wrong on Midnight Bunny utilizing early counterblast. Going with your line up there you have a choice between six total units with only 6000 Power each (you realistically won't have Crimson Beast in here at the time and you won't be able to use both Midnight Bunny & Dancing Princess for the same gambit this turn). Yes, you may boost any of those 6000 Power Units with Girl to force out a single stage of guarding unless your Opponent was forced into riding a Sub-Par Unit. Now considering that you have to be on at least Grade 2 have taken the damage the turn previous, what's the difference between using a Midnight Bunny gambit into a really sub-par Unit creating a really Sub-Par Column (that'll require fixing much later) instead of using a Dancing Princess to set up your soul (Jumping Glenn, Crimson Beast Tamer, Purple Trapezist) and force out pretty much the same level of guard? We know practically if you were to ride your Grade 2, call Princess and Midnight Bunny gambit being boosted off, that unless your Opponent wasn't already doing absolutely terrible, at least one of those rearguards would be cockblocked by a Trigger.

In saying that, Midnight Bunny might regain it's former glory when we get Dark Lord of Pale Moon (the boosted version of Midnight Invader) that could allow it to reach stage 3 against some rearguards.

As for Triggers, if going Sarah, well I don't know, I'd played Criticals for sure but I see conflicting view points about Stands in Sarah and I understand them both, so I really want to look into that more for myself.

THAT'S WHAT IT WAS. Alice is Stage 3 against REAR guards and that's why her CB is more valuable than bunny. If they guard it, that's -2. If they no-guard it, that's -1 and you get to attack again. FUCK why couldn't I remember that in the Pale Moon discussion thread?

3XXXDDD wrote:

The problem I see is that you'e trying to do far too much in one deck; It looks to me like you're trying to force in the general points of Tamer Beatdown along with Sword Magician Sara pressure.

I personally think that the Turquoise Beast Tamers are completely unnecessary at least when you factor in Magician of Quantum Mechanics & Jumping Glenn which in all honesty is far too good to pass up when you can make Nightmare Doll Alice Stage 3 against a Rear. That will do much more for the deck than the occasional Stage 3 Midnight Invader Columns. It's like a rather cost-efficient Dragonic Overlord combo.

I believe you're wrong on Midnight Bunny utilizing early counterblast. Going with your line up there you have a choice between six total units with only 6000 Power each (you realistically won't have Crimson Beast in here at the time and you won't be able to use both Midnight Bunny & Dancing Princess for the same gambit this turn). Yes, you may boost any of those 6000 Power Units with Girl to force out a single stage of guarding unless your Opponent was forced into riding a Sub-Par Unit. Now considering that you have to be on at least Grade 2 have taken the damage the turn previous, what's the difference between using a Midnight Bunny gambit into a really sub-par Unit creating a really Sub-Par Column (that'll require fixing much later) instead of using a Dancing Princess to set up your soul (Jumping Glenn, Crimson Beast Tamer, Purple Trapezist) and force out pretty much the same level of guard? We know practically if you were to ride your Grade 2, call Princess and Midnight Bunny gambit being boosted off, that unless your Opponent wasn't already doing absolutely terrible, at least one of those rearguards would be cockblocked by a Trigger.

In saying that, Midnight Bunny might regain it's former glory when we get Dark Lord of Pale Moon (the boosted version of Midnight Invader) that could allow it to reach stage 3 against some rearguards.

As for Triggers, if going Sarah, well I don't know, I'd played Criticals for sure but I see conflicting view points about Stands in Sarah and I understand them both, so I really want to look into that more for myself.

This deck is trying to do more than most, but that's because it's capable of it without suffering too greatly.

First off, when I mentioned taking the first damage, I meant each round. Of course Bunny is horrible at early stages in the game, but with every single RG in this deck boasting a 9k power late game (minus Dancing Princess, who should be used and tossed away at MOST twice a game, preferably only once to set up either Purple Trapezist in the soul or Crimson Beast Tamer if I miss her ride) it gives her stage 2 shots every turn as your first attack that CAN'T be allowed to hit. If I'm against Crossrides, I stick her behind Crimson or Midnight Invader (Thankfully not going to be the case here, but still - preparing for it rather than shunning it like it's not going to happen anyway).

The argument for Quantum + Glenn is awesome, I see that, but it has a major hole - swing for 3 stages at Rearguard, they take it, I get another, sub-par (at BEST) attack. Yes, another attack all the same and still a -2, but at most this whole gambit costs them a maximum of 10k in guard as long as they think it through (assuming I hit the RG and then swing and either get blocked or hit another RG in cases of 11k defensive VGs or, heaven forbid, Crossrides...) At the cost of 2 CB. This gambit works when they stress out and guard it, expecting the worst. You'd get two turns if they just calmly thought and rationalized that losing a RG isn't that big of a deal, three if you hit a heal check. It's not worth the constant investment that Quantum brings.

Using Bunny requires half the deck space and still nets me the -10k shielding, even better so if they don't guard. It doesn't make Alice the potent threat that you're describing, but I don't want a threat that gets shut down in two turns against anyone with a calm head.


In reply for the triggers... I guess it's just going to require a lot of testing to figure out what needs to go in...