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 Tachikaze Deck

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UhOhSpaghettio

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PostSubject: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-05, 09:48

Grade 0: 19
x1 Dragon Egg
x4 Savage Shaman
x4 Dragon Bird, Firepteryx
x4 Black Cannon Tiger
x4 Herbivorous Dragon, Brutosaurus
x2 Ironclad Dragon, Shieldon

Grade 1: 13
x4 Archbird
x4 Winged Dragon, Beamptero
x3 Winged Dragon, Skyptero
x2 Sonic Noa

Grade 2: 10
x4 Winged Dragon, Slashptero
x3 Assault Dragon, Blightops
x3 Ravenous Dragon, Megarex

Grade 3: 8
x4 Tyrant, Deathrex
x4 Destruction Dragon, Dark Rex

So I brought over my list that I posted on Pojo because I got replies like these:
"I prefer the 11k instead of blightops"

"Why not go for the Raptor ride chain? It's consistent"

"is running non-Ancient Dragon Tachikaze still viable?"

Thoughts/Suggestions?
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Dakota

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PostSubject: Re: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-05, 13:23

Okay... Here's my thoughts. Your grade ratio looks weird (Not a bad thing, just an observation), and it feels a little wonky to me. I'd try 3 Shieldons in order to even out your grade ratio, and either go for 13/10/7 or 12/10/8. With no 8ks in the deck, you don't strictly need Sonic Noa. Also, a pair of Cannongears would be useful. I'd say drop a Megarex and a Slashptera for two Cannongears. Also, due to wacky grade consistency, if you go for 13/10/7, consider running Baby Ptera as your starter. But here's my suggestion:

Grade 0 - 20
1x Dragon Egg
4x Savage Shaman
4x Dragonbird, Firepteryx
4x Black Cannon Tiger
4x Herbivorous Dragon, Brutosaurus
3x Ironclad Dragon, Shieldon

Grade 1 - 12
4x Archbird
4x Winged Dragon, Beamptera
4x Winged Dragon, Skyptero

Grade 2 - 10
2x Cannonfire Dragon, Cannongear
2x Ravenous Dragon, Megarex
3x Assault Dragon, Blightops
3x Winged Dragon, Slashptera

Grade 3 - 8
4x Tyrant Deathrex
3x Destruction Dragon, Dark Rex
1x Something else so you don't have to ride Dark Rex from hand as often
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Rider Kick

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PostSubject: Re: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-05, 14:21

If there was a way to like that build Dakota I would.
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UhOhSpaghettio

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PostSubject: Re: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-05, 16:15

Thanks for the suggestions Dakota. I'm not really privy on adding Cannongears since I see no use for them. The 8ks are to boost Blightops (since Skyptero can't, and Beamptero is for making columns with Slashptero). I might even out my grade ratio by -1 Skyptero and +1 Shieldon.
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Dakota

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PostSubject: Re: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-05, 17:52

Cannongears can instantly retire your Blightops for automatic Shieldon to hand. They can also give you your Dragon Egg back. Beamptera is a better booster for Blightops, and you can just as easily retire that column for a better plus.

Rider Kick: Thanks. I like to think I'm good at this game.
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-05, 17:59

You're so close to my Super Soldier MkII build that's tested as optimal. Why not just use that?

Dakota wrote:
Cannongears can instantly retire your Blightops for automatic Shieldon to hand. They can also give you your Dragon Egg back. Beamptera is a better booster for Blightops, and you can just as easily retire that column for a better plus.

Rider Kick: Thanks. I like to think I'm good at this game.
So does calling any other Grade 2 over the Blightops. Both are equally a waste of a Deathrex hit.
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UhOhSpaghettio

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PostSubject: Re: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-05, 21:12

I acknowledge that your build was tested many times over but I have tailored the build to more fit myself.

My reasons for the changes from the super-soldier build are as follows, Alice:

-1 Shieldon - Number of Shieldon correlates to the number of Blightops so it will be explained then.

-1 Skyptero - With Blightops and Slashptero being 9k, there needed to be more 7k+ boosters and this was the only thing I could take out for room.

+2 Sonic Noa - Better defensive grade 1 ride (not a real issue, but still a benefit). Allows for a +0 from Dark Rex's bind by giving an extra stage when used with Megarex/Deahthrex. Allows Blightops and Slashptero to hit magic numbers.

+4 Slashptero - Allows for more consistent 16k Dark Rex. With these, I can have a Dark Rex ready for a 16k hit as soon as I get to 4 damage putting massive pressure on my opponent.

-1 Blightops - changed to accommodate the lack of optimal boosts and room.

-1 Megarex - changed as a result of a lack of room in the grade 2 line up.

-2 Cannongear - Same reason as Megarex. Also generally useless the way I have tailored the deck

If you need more of an explanation because I was too vague, I'd be happy to provide. Thanks for the suggestions so far.
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-06, 08:55

UhOhSpaghettio wrote:
I acknowledge that your build was tested many times over but I have tailored the build to more fit myself.

My reasons for the changes from the super-soldier build are as follows, Alice:

-1 Shieldon - Number of Shieldon correlates to the number of Blightops so it will be explained then.

-1 Skyptero - With Blightops and Slashptero being 9k, there needed to be more 7k+ boosters and this was the only thing I could take out for room.

+2 Sonic Noa - Better defensive grade 1 ride (not a real issue, but still a benefit). Allows for a +0 from Dark Rex's bind by giving an extra stage when used with Megarex/Deahthrex. Allows Blightops and Slashptero to hit magic numbers.

+4 Slashptero - Allows for more consistent 16k Dark Rex. With these, I can have a Dark Rex ready for a 16k hit as soon as I get to 4 damage putting massive pressure on my opponent.

-1 Blightops - changed to accommodate the lack of optimal boosts and room.

-1 Megarex - changed as a result of a lack of room in the grade 2 line up.

-2 Cannongear - Same reason as Megarex. Also generally useless the way I have tailored the deck

If you need more of an explanation because I was too vague, I'd be happy to provide. Thanks for the suggestions so far.
Yes, this is far too vague and actually has nothing to do with the reason any of the copies are the way they are in my deck. Please read the About page for why personal preference is not a suitable reason to run something as optimal decks require objectivity, not a subjective judgment based preference.

http://vmundi.forumotion.com/t356-what-is-v-mundi-about

That has been a real problem lately with a lot of the new members and is one reason why the Newbie Forum is so packed full of newbies rather than them moving on to the rest of the board. It wouldn't be a very academic board if everyone was just jotting down their feelings to each reply.

As for my build, you've actually missed the point of why it is, what it is. I mean, you're so close to an optimal deck, I don't understand why you'd want to not just go all the way.

Quote :

8/4/4 - Crit/Draw/Heal
-Dragon Egg
-3 Shieldon. If you don't use at least 3 of these, then there's no point in running Deathrex. His whole gambit relies on getting free power. It's not free if you don't have enough costs to pay in the form of Blightopses. If Shieldons aren't in the deck, you can't pay with Blightopses. The only reason this isn't still 4 copies, is that ride consistency suffered back then before we had good grade 3s.

Grade 1: 12
-4 Archbird
-4 Beamptero
-4 Skyptero. Same as Shieldon's reasoning. Without 4, you have a lower chance of properly breaking even with Deathrex and, now even more important, Dark Rex. Plus there's exactly zero reason to use Sonic Noa since there are no 8k grade 2s in this deck. Those Noas you added can be converted into 1 Skyp and 1 Shieldon safely with no issues. The math works out, even if you added the Noas for some sort of response to conditions in games.

Grade 2: 10
-4 Megarex. There's no reason not to run max of this. Those extra Beampteros that you stuck in there could, and should, be a proper attacker that scales with all your boosters (that's also the reason that Cannon Gear was originally in this build. Just as an extra Megarex)
-4 Blightops. Same reason. Why use Slashpteros when they grant you a strict minus over cards like Blightops which won't grant you a minus?
-2 Cannon Gear / Slashptero. Here is where Slashptero belongs. He's got an okay ability when eaten (a bit better if for Dark Rex since that makes him capable of putting on decent pressure) but is too costly to use for the meat of Deathrex's attacks. Scaling back any other card besides this one is going to cut into your midgame cost-paying or field consistency. Cutting into Slashptero only cuts into one specific gambit's consistency with getting specific power which may be completely unnecessary.

Grade 3: 8
-4 Deathrex
-4 Dark Rex

I hope it's clearer now.
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UhOhSpaghettio

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PostSubject: Re: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-06, 19:51

Every change I made to the deck wasn't just made arbitrarily or based on feelings and no testing. If you're saying that 2 Slashptero is enough however (and I trust your judgement since you run far more tests than I so far have), I will oblige and make the suitable changes.

Also, since you said my reasoning was very vague allow me to try and clarify.

Through testing and tournament plays, I came to the conclusion that I needed to add Slashptero into the Supersoldier MKII deck. I originally though to take out 2 Megarex and 2 Cannongear (to stay with maximum Blightops since I've seen full well how good this card is in games). After making those changes, I found myself with a lack of ability to form proper columns due to only having 4 suitable boosters for 8 of my grade 2 units.

What else I found, though, was that Dark Rex with his additional fuel source had the ability to go off indefinitely each game at least once. On rare occasions they survived the initial Dark Rex onslaught, I had extra Slashptero/Beamptero along with another Dark Rex to do it again. The fact that I could do this convinced me that cutting into Slashptero would be a bad idea.

So with the problem of boosters, I took out 2 Skyptero and added in 2 Sonic Noa as well as taking out 1 Blightops and putting in 1 Megarex to try and ensure proper columns.

From there the deck did well other than drawing Shieldon at the same rate as Blightops. From there I did -1 Shieldon and +1 Skyptero. I tested only a few games (no tournaments) and decided to get some advice from here and pojo.
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-06, 20:17

Well even independent of testing, which makes more logical sense: more Blightops and Skyptero which wash your minuses (If they were Slashpteros, you'd minus strictly)? More of Noa which doesn't pair up? More of a strict minus that doesn't scale with Skyptero or more of Megarex which does? That's how the deck was constructed. Actually, have you given the deck construction article on the blog a read? It can really help by having you look at the unit selection as a puzzle where you maximize your main gambit and then start adding subgambits. Since Dark Rex is a subgambit, you'd want to add those in after maximizing main gambits (Blightops/Shieldon > Skyptero > Megarex etc). That's how construction has always led to very little changes after testing anyway.

Interesting that you decided to double Dark Rex though. I've never had the opportunity to do this in testing since the retires and general low grade ratio made it too difficult to spare an extra Dark Rex instead of call it. In an ideal world, I'd draw Megarexes and Deathrexes to replace the sacrificial units but alas. Your way is a bit more chance reliant though since it requires not only getting 2 copies of the same card by execution turn, but also at least 2 copies of pteros. That's a bit harder to swallow than a single Dark and a single Ptero, or a single Dark and 2 Pteros. But kudos for thinking of that double gambit, since I didn't even try it.

Though, if you actually want to switch Dark as your main gambit, you can, just don't use Deathrex as your vanguard (since he comes with all the retire baggage). Instead, use just the Grade 3 Raptor, not his chain, and less Skypteros (and therefore less Megarexes for more Slashpteros) since you have less you need to recuperate when retiring. Call over the blightopses now to get their effect instead of using it with deathrex. Now you should have a bunch of pteranodons out and 1 or more Deathrex binded. You can use all your spammy gambits to bring the pain. I actually thought of this third build before, but never tested it since I couldn't think of any use for Dark Rex as the main, and automatically defaulted to Raptor as the main (leading to the Marshal Law deck)
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UhOhSpaghettio

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PostSubject: Re: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-06, 21:16

I actually did want Dark Rex to be my main gambit. I guess maybe I should have specified that in my initial post. Anyway, that sounds like a really cool idea and I will give myself a day or two of testing and post back here when I get results. Also, I hadn't read the article on deck building yet, no. I didn't even know of it's existence until now and I will definitely give it a read before I go into testing for the new build.

Thanks for everything so far!
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zaglier

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PostSubject: Re: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-07, 17:54

Alice, with your supersoldier MK-II deck, wouldn't it be impossible to get an extra stage on your rearguard attack (against 11k vanguards) by binding darkrex because there is no combination of boosters/attackers that make 18k columns? Or would the extra stage just be gravy on top rather than something to shoot for when planning how to develop your field?
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newbishop

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PostSubject: Re: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-07, 19:03

zaglier wrote:
Alice, with your supersoldier MK-II deck, wouldn't it be impossible to get an extra stage on your rearguard attack (against 11k vanguards) by binding darkrex because there is no combination of boosters/attackers that make 18k columns? Or would the extra stage just be gravy on top rather than something to shoot for when planning how to develop your field?

I'd say that's just a bonus, for the main gambit of the deck, you're honestly looking to increase shielding/ hit hard with Deathrex, which is why Noa isn't run, the space is needed for better cards. The one time gambit isn't really worth the overall image of the deck, so yeah, it's just gravy on top if you do get to pull it off (guess is that 11k with any of the 7k's in the deck). The extra Slashptera are worth more than the Noas so Dark Rex can actually hit an 11k VG when he comes out.
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Alice
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PostSubject: Re: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-07, 21:08

zaglier wrote:
Alice, with your supersoldier MK-II deck, wouldn't it be impossible to get an extra stage on your rearguard attack (against 11k vanguards) by binding darkrex because there is no combination of boosters/attackers that make 18k columns? Or would the extra stage just be gravy on top rather than something to shoot for when planning how to develop your field?
One of the test builds I did for it just kept the deck the same as MkI and swapped the gigarexes for Dark Rex and 1 Shieldon for +1 darkrex. The result was that getting the three stages was far too situational since it required a Noa (behind 10k+) and a Dark Rex. The probability started giving diminishing returns so I said screw it and got rid of that strategy. It's just gravy power now.
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UhOhSpaghettio

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PostSubject: Re: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-08, 21:54

I'm sad to say that deckbuilding and as an extension, testing, has been delayed until next week due to excess work. I've only had about 20 minutes to sit down and try to work things out but even then I was getting repeatedly interrupted.

From the 20 minutes I sat down to try however, it seemed pretty futile because there just isn't enough room to work with when Shieldon takes up 2-4 grade 0 spots. I hope not to, but I may give up and just go with the Supersoldier MKII build.
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Alarrick

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PostSubject: Re: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-10, 09:15

If you play in any tournaments or have some other way of getting your hands on the promo Assault Dragon, Circular Spino then I highly recommend running him. He work wonders in the deck, allowing you to consistantly retire on attack to make him a 12k swing plus a boost.

On a side note, I have seen the Raptors utilized with Dark Rex work for absolutely brutal results. If you have Dark Rex in the bind zone, Colonel on Vanguard and your opponent is at four or more damage, chances are you are capable of winning it that turn. Colonel's attack is extremely diffiult to guard, and if your opponent has no choice but to guard it and you superior ride Dark Rex afterwards, chances are your opponent isn't going to have enough in hand to guard Dark Rex.
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Lich_Lord_Fortissimo

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PostSubject: Re: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-10, 09:49

Alarrick, I should probably tell you that Circular Spino's going to hurt more than help. For starters, you're only accomplishing a poor man's Bedivere. Even if you can wash with Skyptero or Blightops, you are eating up CB that should have gone into not making Deathrex a liability. Megarex and Cannon Gear already form columns with the rest of the deck, so unless it's a meta call where you can abuse it with Sonic Noa to punish 10k Vanguards it's not a good idea.

Basically, why would you even willingly want to retire something at all if it's only going to +0 wash at best?

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Alarrick

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PostSubject: Re: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-10, 12:42

If you utilize Spino's skill go retire a rearguard such as Skyptero, Dragon Egg or Blightops you are effectively adding a card to your hand at the cost of counterblast one. Using this skill allows you to convert the field advantage that yo held during your during ito hand advantage and defensive utility during your opponents. Essentially, Spino allows you to put togethor an 18k Hamburger-Time hitting column, while simultaneously converting your offensive ability into defensive power during your opponent's next turn. Due to Spino's skill being an Auto that takes place during the battle phase you aren't diminishing your attack, and you are strengthening your guard. While in the long run you find yorself short a rearguard, you are gaining hand. In any other lan this is decent at best, but in Tachikaze where your goal is to outlast your opponent, Circular Spino is a perfectly viable option.

On a side note, I should point out that if using Dark Rex and Raptor Colonel togethor, you should not use Circular Spino because his skill would leave you with too few cards to Superior Ride Dark Rex if you use Colonel's Limit Break.
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UhOhSpaghettio

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PostSubject: Re: Tachikaze Deck   2013-06-10, 21:11

Go to Alice's Tachikaze deep clan article as well as the card advantage and resource articles and re-read them because you don't seem to understand why Spino is awful.
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