Shadow Paladin Build (Now with Blasters!)

G0 (17)
1 Fullbau
4 Grim Reaper (Crit)
4 Abyss Freezer (Draw)
4 Abyss Healer (Heal)
4 Darkside Trumpeter (Stand)

G1 (14)
4 Black Sage, Charon
4 Gururubau
4 Dark Shield, Mac Lir
2 Nostrum Witch, Arianrod

G2 (11)

4 Cursed Lancer
2 Knight of Fighting Spirit, Dordona
2 Dark Knight, Rugos
2 Darkness Maiden, Macha
1 Skull Witch, Nevan

G3 (8)

3 Dark Metal Dragon
2 The Dark Dictator
3 Dark Mage, Badhabh Caar

I'm interested in playing the Shadow Paladin clan, but don't want to go the typical Blaster Dark/PBD route. Any advice is welcome, thanks!

Yaaay a fellow Shadow Paladin :D
What's the point of Cursed Lancer? Your deck isn't really counter blast heavy, as none of the grade 3s have counter blasts. Best case scenario you'd get both your Machas and your Nemain, and that'll be 5 cb. No flippers necessary. It'd say replace Lancer to max Rugos and Dardona.
Secondly, what's the aim of the deck? Is it to use Dark Dictator's effect, then swap to Dark Metal? Or is Dark Metal your go to card if you don't draw Dictator? If you're only using Dictator for his effect, then riding Dark Metal later, I wouldn't recommend Arianrod. Unless you're just using her for the 7k boost.
3 Badb Catha seems too excessive. Like Alice said, you don't want to get him nor Nemain early game, so running 1 is fine. You can max Dictator or Dark Metal in it's place. Or your can completely drop him. You have no cards besides Nemain that kills off your own rearguards, and you only have 1 copy of her.
Besides that, it I don't see any problems with it.

Traesive wrote:

Yaaay a fellow Shadow Paladin :D
What's the point of Cursed Lancer? Your deck isn't really counter blast heavy, as none of the grade 3s have counter blasts. Best case scenario you'd get both your Machas and your Nemain, and that'll be 5 cb. No flippers necessary. It'd say replace Lancer to max Rugos and Dardona.
Secondly, what's the aim of the deck? Is it to use Dark Dictator's effect, then swap to Dark Metal? Or is Dark Metal your go to card if you don't draw Dictator? If you're only using Dictator for his effect, then riding Dark Metal later, I wouldn't recommend Arianrod.
3 Badb Catha seems too excessive. Like Alice said, you don't want to get him nor Nemain early game, so running 1 is fine. You can max Dictator or Dark Metal in it's place.
Besides that, it I don't see any problems with it.

That makes a lot of sense about Cursed Lancer. That was more of an oversight from switching my G3's around. I pictured riding Dark Metal first, then later on Dictator.

So with that in mind:
-4 Cursed Lancer
+2 Rugos
+2 Dardona

-2 Badb
+1 DMD
+1DD

Thanks!

More Dictator less Mage.

This deck has a lot of problems and I need to rip it apart. Firstly, you're using Nemain and Badb Catha without any way to kill them. Secondly you're running 3 copies of a 9k Grade 3 with an 8-copy Grade 3 deck. That's already under the ride-optimal 9, so every unridable Grade 3 you add makes it that more likely for you to get screwed.

Not having Blasters at all isn't a good thing. It's very very bad. Right now, that's the only way to get +1. Blaster Dark is at least a 9k that can sit in there doing nothing if you fail. A +1 if you succeed. It seems like what you're trying to do is my Phantom King build but without a clear goal or proper core support.

Alice wrote:

This deck has a lot of problems and I need to rip it apart. Firstly, you're using Nemain and Badb Catha without any way to kill them. Secondly you're running 3 copies of a 9k Grade 3 with an 8-copy Grade 3 deck. That's already under the ride-optimal 9, so every unridable Grade 3 you add makes it that more likely for you to get screwed.

Not having Blasters at all isn't a good thing. It's very very bad. Right now, that's the only way to get +1. Blaster Dark is at least a 9k that can sit in there doing nothing if you fail. A +1 if you succeed. It seems like what you're trying to do is my Phantom King build but without a clear goal or proper core support.

Ok so I think (read: hope) I took this the right way and did some re-working.

G0 (17)
1 Fullbau
4 Grim Reaper (Crit)
4 Abyss Freezer (Draw)
4 Abyss Healer (Heal)
4 Darkside Trumpeter (Stand)

G1 (14)
4 Black Sage, Charon
2 Gururubau
4 Dark Shield, Mac Lir
4 Blaster Javelin

G2 (11)
3 Knight of Fighting Spirit, Dordona
3 Dark Knight, Rugos
2 Darkness Maiden, Macha
3 Blaster Dark

G3 (8)

4 Dark Metal Dragon
3 The Dark Dictator
1 Demon of the Silver Spear, Gusion

What I'd like to happen is initially Ride DMD as my first G3 and use his ability for the extra pressure, until I have the field the way I like it. At which point ride Dictator at 5 damage (allowing me one use of Gusion's CB previously or concurrently) to throw out some crazy damage. I guess I kind of vanilla-ized it a bit, but I guess without the sacrifice-necessary units, I don't need to spam the extra summon units.

Why don't you love Gururubau? D;
Suggesting to run 1 Blaster Dark to max Garurubau. You'll only really need 1, as Javelin fishes for him.

Why Gururubau? Might as well run Arondight since it's a 7K booster that sits behind Dark Alfred and lols.

Because how Cyprus intends to use The Dark Dictator is for his final turn, and have Dark Metal as his Vanguard for the majority of the game. Also, because Gururubau can swing for 9k in the front row, making him another viable attacker. Not just for early game, but forever. Arianrod is just a booster, and although the hand swapping is useful, Shadow Paladin doesn't really need it. Especially when it kills a column for a turn.

You can just do 2 Darks and 3 Javelin and Gusion is terrible for shadows. You know honestly, with all the work and testing I put into those two Shadows builds I put up, I can tell you there really is no other build that's equally viable right now :|

Also to zawarudo, you don't NEED to put a booster behind Dictator. If your opponent has an 11k vanguard anyway, you can't hit 3 stages no matter what. It frees up a space on the field if you intend to keep Dictator out.

Having a dude that can just tap to refresh a card in your hand is still good. When you play DMD it hits 21K anyway.

Consider Origin Mage, Ildona over those 4x Darkmetals?

It's cheap as balls right now to buy as a single, can hit for similar numbers, and lets you have the option of swapping out columns for hand presence later in the game with its Limit Break. Same role, more utility.

And yeah if you're gonna do a one-off anything at all, -1 Gusion +1 Phantom Blaster. And for god's sakes, -2 or -1 Blaster Dark, the whole point of the chain is that you don't need to run anything resembling a high count of him to plus. Two I could understand as a way of shutting off the probability magic that is accidentally drawing that shit in your opening hand after mulligan or getting it as first damage check, but you shouldn't need more than that for, like, any reason. It's not even that great a ride. As for what to put in that space, more Macha might help, and teching Nemain as a 1-2 off is a valid move in just about every Shadow Paladin build because it's cheap card cycling at worst.

Basically Scarlet is saying "Use Alice's Phantom Queen build" :P

Haven't actually checked the Deep Clan yet :P

But yeah, there's really like... a ridiculously limited number of ways to build Shadow Paladin at the moment. If BT10 is hybrid-themed and we get more Shadow/Golds you might have something, We're getting a new Goat starter promo that'll let you cut out the Blaster chain if you want, but until we get those it's pretty much a small playing board. And even when we do it's just less small.

Sick of Shadows getting the shaft in every set

BT05 was kind of pathetic for Shadow Paladins considering it was the last time they got a full set's worth of support. "Here, have this Lohengrin clone which will have absolutely zero purpose until we print a promo several months later. And like, one other trigger beyond your base four. And no new starter options. And a Libra clone.

Oh and that crossride thing. Although even then PBO is the crossride all the other crossrides laugh at after class and tease and take lunch money from.

BT04 was their release. Shit release with barely anything playable. BT05 gives us a crossshit which doesn't count and Skullface. Nothing further needed to be said there. Oh boy finally proper triggers. Basically nothing else.

They get skipped in set 6, set 7, and set 8. Completely. And they get a single card in EB03 as Ildona. Granted a card that ties things together but they could've done better. And now BT09 hits and what do they get? A card meant for Gold Paladins and a shitty starter that every other deck laughs at. Yet they're so hard up for any little thing, that shitty starter will see play.

SHAFT SHAFT SHAFT SHAFT SHAFT SHAFT SHAFT.

Do we know EVERYTHING they're getting yet? Cause, if not, we may be in for pleasant surprises, or more disappointment, but at least there IS a chance for pleasant.



Is my ability to be irrationally optimistic the reason I'd fit in Lovecraft? As in, I could deal with all the doom and gloom and still be happy? I've been pondering and doing a little research, not much as I LIKE sleeping at night, and I still have trouble understanding your earlier comment. Yes, these kind of things nag at my mind until I get answers.

No, no. It was because you had an easy time dealing with something I thought was insane. It was an attempt at humorous hyperbole.

Maam, you have not seen the inside of my head, nor would you ever want to. The things I see when I close my eyes.... Yeah, not pleasant. Frankly, being in the Lovecraftian universe would be somewhat comforting, as at least I know that it's not ME that's crazy.

Aaanyway, any ideas on HOW SP could get a boost, aside from gaining some staples. I mean, how could their theme be expanded on? Giving them too many ways to replace their lost units will just make them a dark Tachi ripoff but not giving them any is a recipe for disaster, right? I'm not missing something obvious again, right?

Personally I don't find sacrificing rearguards the appropriate theme for SP. The anime does a bad job on showing what SP is able to do. Rather than being a cold and emotionless jerk and go killing your rearguards, they're able to switch play styles on the go. Maybe you Nemain and Ildona to get more cards in your hand to ready for your opponent's onslaught. Maybe it's killing something with PBD to fix your horrible columns (though using PBD for that purpose means that even you had to play triggers or you're just bad to have 2 screwed over columns) and be aggressive for that turn. They go all out early game and turtle late game. Sure, the majority of effects SP has is to sacrifice rearguards, but that doesn't make it the theme .
If I could drop SP some support, I'll probably give them a card where the effect is:
CB [insert number here] and look at the top card o your deck, if it is a SP, then place it on a RG circle / choose 1 SP from your deck and call it to a RG circle, shuffle blah blah blah. At the end of the turn, retire that unit.
It'll encourage the use of the sacrificial effects since you're going to minus anyways. It also helps gets rid of any unwanted cards late game, like say Blaster Javelin.
Maybe some more cards like Nemain and Ildona that sacrifices units for more cards. Because, let's face it. Cards like PBD are horrible and is perfect guard bait. It doesn't even burn through them as well as Dimension Police does.
Perhaps a card that allows you to stand a rearguard for the cost of a unit. That's so much more efficient than the +10k and a crit, and it has the same amount of pressure, if not more, than the power boost.

Either way, leave it to Bushi. They're experts at making balanced cards for any clan that isn't Gold Paladin.

Here's the problem: Shadows have no defined trait yet. They have all these little half-traits but nothing concrete. They really need to start finding ways to generate legit advantage. Call it risk advantage. Like you have cards like nemain which are risky. Then you find ways to retire her for a cycle or more advantage, so it doesn't wash. There's temporary risk there and you get a reward if you take the risk of keeping that unit out and losing pressure.

Shit like PBD just doesn't fly. And Ildona falls a bit short.

Also. None of this RANDOM plussing shit. Firstly, GP already does that. Secondly, it's a dogshit mechanic that breeds bad players. And shadows need something deserving and unique. So I submit risk advantage. They gain advantage from skills slowly, but the cards themselves are risky to use due to other factors.

I'd disagree with random plussing necessarily breeding bad players, at least as far as the way Bushiroad made it work for Gold Paladin. The whole concept behind it is that you're always going to get something, no matter what you do, and your goal is to find a way to set your field and deck up in a way that no matter what the something you get is, you're always going to get a small benefit out of it.

That said I agree, aside from maybe an obligatory Devil Summoner clone (since everyone else is getting one, Shadows may as well) I don't really see any reason why we need random superior call in Shadow Paladin which isn't Babd Catha. The deck needs cheap ability to produce cards so that things like Ildona's field-to-hand cycling can excel, they just need junk like, say, a Luck Bird clone. And if Bushiroad's really going to keep up Phantom Blaster Dragon-type skills where you trade what's in play for a theoretical offensive advantage, they really need more units like Duke which let you actually use what was in play before you trade it off the board. Darkness Rex would have made a kinda awesome Shadow Paladin.

I think the idea behind Shadows was supposed to be a deck with self-retire bosses, but which encouraged you to trade your card advantage in for offensive/tempo advantage rather than doing what Great Nature or Tachikaze do, which is maintain the overall structure of your field (or in Great Nature's case, even occasionally give you ways to turn the minus into a plus).

Wait, you don't think that players stating that this entire game is "luck" and thinking that getting these one in a hundred off topcalls makes them good is a bad thing and is breeding them into bad players? Because that's exactly what's happening. And more.

Devil Summoner clone is actually a GREAT example of what they need. With some changes though. It needs to not be random chance (DS has about 52% chance to hit a target given normal ratios) and be guaranteed though. But it can be even more risky like 6000 Power. Or have it CONT lose -X000 power or something. This is what I mean by gaining risky advantage. And then you have to quickly and efficiently cover your tracks by bumping off your own unit for something different. I just don't like the idea of continuing to give them random calls. This was just an example of what I was talking about, not really the exact thing they need.

I think the retiring bosses for Shadows is a really bad idea unless the advantage of the peons is self-contained. Like giving strict advantage such as Nemain. Then you can use the boss to turn it into offensive power and break even advantage-wise with an extra effect on the vanguard.

Alice wrote:

Wait, you don't think that players stating that this entire game is "luck" and thinking that getting these one in a hundred off topcalls makes them good is a bad thing and is breeding them into bad players? Because that's exactly what's happening. And more.

People have been saying Vanguard is "luck" ever since day one, when people were complaining about the fact that you can't actually control your triggers and can at best make calculations to both minimize risk and maximize reward, so no, I don't think Gold Paladin's call mechanic really has had any significant influence on that that I've ever seen. It's also not about the chances of one in a hundred, it's about learning to try to turn small gains into large ones, and how to construct your deck and field so that you have a good balance of ways to get extra benefits from your call skills without throwing off your overall consistency. Cards like the Valkyries have really low base power and don't give you enough benefit to justify including them in your deck, so they're kind of a newbie trap, but cards like Spring Breeze Messenger, Viviane, Lop-Ear Shooter and to an extent Kahedin can slip in pretty much seamlessly. Even Pellinore, while still not nearly as good as the other Gold Paladin boss cards, can find a home in a deck now. No, I don't think Gold Paladin makes players worse, I think people choose to play Gold Paladin in really stupid ways, even for the topdeck call cards. If people still think Ezel is about filling your field instead of using the superior call skill as an added bonus on top of a 5000-10000 power gain, that's because they didn't really make an effort to understand the different ways to use the unit to begin with.

I actually had a crack idea for a Shadow Paladin starter which retired itself, called the top two cards of the deck at rest, and retired them at the end of the turn- the idea being since it's turning one card into two you can spin it into a plus from Ildona or pad the loss from something like PBD.