Oracle Think Tank - CoCo build.

New here, not good with introductions, etc.

Since BT07 is coming in September, and I don't want to be like everyone else and run Tsukuyomi come August, I put together a list for the "new" build that BT07 makes work.

Grade 0 - 17
1 Little Witch, LuLu - Starting Vanguard.
4 Lozenge Magus (Heal)
3 Miracle Kid (Draw)
3 Dream Eater (Draw)
4 Psychic Bird (Critical)
2 Oracle Guardian Nike (Critical)

Grade 1 - 15
4 Battle Sister, Chocolat (Perfect Guard)
4 Oracle Guardian, Gemini (8k booster)
3 Battle Sister, Cocoa
4 Emerald Witch, LaLa

Grade 2 - 11
4 Oracle Guardian, Wiseman (10k intercepter)
3 Battle Sister, Glaze (More consistent than Mocha, from my playtesting)
2 Battle Sister, Mocha
2 Silent Tom

Grade 3 - 7
4 Scarlet Witch, CoCo
3 Sky Witch, NaNa

The obvious goal is to ride CoCo if at all possible, use LuLu's effect to toss the remaining soul out to draw a card, use CoCo's counterblast to draw two more cards, and start hitting for 21k (assuming I put Gemini behind it). NaNa is an alternative since she has the same +3k effect as Coco, but I'm losing that 2 draw. The main thing I'm worried about is LaLa. The drawing effect works fine when it actually works, but it's a 7k booster in a deck that doesn't have any 9k attackers. I might want to find something to swap that with.

I've tested out around 10 games with it, and won 7, so it seems like it's working out okay, but I want to see what you guys think.

Actually a lot of people are holding out for CoCo instead since she lets you OMGDRAW and Tsukuyomi is expensive. So in actuality, you'd be playing what everyone else will play.

You don't need Cocoa at all. LaLa also isn't necessary.

This is basically the most boring deck in the universe anyway, and makes the game more like Yugioh than vanguard. It removes the "Think" part of "Oracle Think Tank" and the deck just becomes "Draw cards. Play cards."

Yay.

Well, since I already have the vanilla build completed for OTT anyway, I guess I'll stick with that instead and switch to Tsukuyomi if those cards are at a reasonable price when the set comes out.

Now that I think about it, you're right that it removes the thinking aspect of the deck, and that was the reason I picked up the deck in the first place.

That's a good choice.

I pretty much have no respect for people who play CoCo in casual play. It removes all fun (which is admittedly subjective) but more importantly, stops it from being Vanguard anymore. I suppose it's good for newbies to master the basics, but I'd rather give them a Kagero deck with all vanillas.

I can see that. The main reason I wanted to pick it up in the first place is that I didn't want to drop the chunk of change that Tsukuyomi would probably cost to build, but considering how un-fun it really does kind of make the game (I could tell my teammate that I was testing against was getting increasingly mad as I kept winning over and over again without even really trying), I think I'll just stick with the vanilla build and work my way towards Tsukuyomi. I had more fun with Tsukuyomi anyway.

I can attest to having played CoCo a few times on BYOND... that it's just... bland. There's no decision making, there's no thinking at all really. You play YOUR field and yours alone - forget your opponent's hand entirely, even how many cards are in it. Just play all the cards and be done.

I play Tsukoyomi right now on BYOND, have the deck proxied out to practice it at home when I feel like it, and plan on getting the full build within the week of BT03 and I can say that it is SO much more fun than CoCo, and as long as you have good decision making skills and are good at evaluating risk vs reward... (I'll admit, I tend to have 4 damage before I even ride G3 just because... it doesn't hurt the deck THAT badly. Unless someone is swinging for sub-par numbers and easy to guard or has some awesome on-hit effect, I just no guard.) you'll find Tsukoyomi serves you just as well, and is a lot more fun to play, if just a little less consistent.

I've had Tsukuyomi proxied for awhile and have it built on Byond (Byond is great for using cards you don't have, but I much prefer playing face to face with my teammates). I know first hand how fun it is knowing that you have two criticals waiting for you (or whatever shenanigans are set up).

I just hope it isn't going to annihilate my wallet too badly...

Red_Nova wrote:

I can see that. The main reason I wanted to pick it up in the first place is that I didn't want to drop the chunk of change that Tsukuyomi would probably cost to build, but considering how un-fun it really does kind of make the game (I could tell my teammate that I was testing against was getting increasingly mad as I kept winning over and over again without even really trying), I think I'll just stick with the vanilla build and work my way towards Tsukuyomi. I had more fun with Tsukuyomi anyway.

The "without trying" part is what is bad. My first test ever with CoCo was just me putting 4 of her in the deck and literally dragging in cards at random until I had 16 triggers and 50 cards.

I won without trying. Without knowing what was even going on, half-asleep, bored to hell, and had no idea how many of what trigger came up, what the opponent's columns were like or what my own columns were like. I even had Silent Tom in front of Truth Gazer at one point, it was that bad. I only remember that I won by having 3 damage and my opponent was trying as hard as possible.

I basically lost all respect for CoCo from there and testing it with a legit complete version made me want to stab infants.

Wolfen wrote:

(I'll admit, I tend to have 4 damage before I even ride G3 just because... it doesn't hurt the deck THAT badly. Unless someone is swinging for sub-par numbers and easy to guard or has some awesome on-hit effect, I just no guard.) you'll find Tsukoyomi serves you just as well, and is a lot more fun to play, if just a little less consistent.

Getting to late game before you even start Mid game is a death sentence in Tsukuyomi. You have to force the opponent to slow-play because you're so weak early game. It's hard to loop your deck in only 4 turns.

It almost sounds like Coco's going to be a rather straightforward (read: "autopilot-but-reluctant-to-say-so-without-experience") build. There has to be some weakness or shortcoming that can be exploited or used as pressure.

Weak field presence? No, wait, a bigger hand means more flexibility and resources to use.

Poor late-game? Oh, right, late-game is what OTTs excel at, especially if they can go from no hand to 5 in one turn (absolute worst-case of no hand and drawing CoCo before needing to ride a grade 3).

Inability to push early? Crud, the draw power means committing to the field early wouldn't sting as badly as usual.

Weak attack? Shoot, LuLu lets CoCo smack the opponent for high numbers easily.

Needs 2 damage? That would only happen if the opponent didn't attack your Vanguard each turn early-game, and even so, LuLu would still give you a card.

Rrrrgh, there's gotta be something. Maybe I'm mistaken with my aforementioned assumptions of the build's strength? I suggested to a friend that CoCo might be an interesting build (he was about to sell his OTTs, which he had playsets of everything sans Mocha and CoCo), and I think I might explode with frustration if the deck really is that foolproof. Oh lord, the smugness that I'd have to endure...

Actually its one weakness is not being able to rush early. If you call RGs in the front, your opponent can just target them and not your VG, meaning you don't get your counterblasts by the time you ride Grade 3 and you end up way behind.

So basically if you never do that, you're golden.

The deck is autopilot yugioh.

Alice wrote:

Actually its one weakness is not being able to rush early. If you call RGs in the front, your opponent can just target them and not your VG, meaning you don't get your counterblasts by the time you ride Grade 3 and you end up way behind.

So basically if you never do that, you're golden.

The deck is autopilot yugioh.

So, does that mean the moment I see LuLu as an opponent's starter come October (English), I just go nuts and throw down all as many callable units as I can each turn (scaled optimally, of course) and rush? Y'know, assuming the CoCo player doesn't call other rearguard attackers so he can get his counterblasts (i.e. he knows what he's doing)?

If you can do 4 damage to CoCo before the second turn of Mid game you just handed them two CoCo rides. and now they will block everything you do.

Alice wrote:

If you can do 4 damage to CoCo before the second turn of Mid game you just handed them two CoCo rides. and now they will block everything you do.

Well, there's gotta be something. Despite my grumbling earlier, I'd hate to see CoCo, a card that had essentially been put to the wayside before Set 7 came out, lose the viability it received just because of ease to play and apparent lack of balance - I don't wanna see another restricted card (not CoCo in particular, but any card).

I suppose there's the possibility CoCo builds won't be prevalent, but...I dunno, there's gotta be some unavoidable drawback the other clans are exploiting, or else we'd see nothing but CoCo builds up top.

They didn't restrict The End, Majesty Lord, or PBO regardless of how mind-numbingly annoying it is that the entire meta revolves around 3 broken cards. Oh, but let's get rid of Barcgal.

So no, I don't think she'll end up restricted even if she's obviously advantageous.

Alice wrote:

They didn't restrict The End, Majesty Lord, or PBO regardless of how mind-numbingly annoying it is that the entire meta revolves around 3 broken cards. Oh, but let's get rid of Barcgal.

So no, I don't think she'll end up restricted even if she's obviously advantageous.

I guess. Last I heard OTTs were hurtin' for a support boost for the longest time, anyway.

Alice wrote:

They didn't restrict The End, Majesty Lord, or PBO regardless of how mind-numbingly annoying it is that the entire meta revolves around 3 broken cards. Oh, but let's get rid of Barcgal.

So no, I don't think she'll end up restricted even if she's obviously advantageous.

These 3 aren't broken. I feel kinda sian whenever I hear anyone say this.

DOTE: Extremely hard to cross-ride successfully even you maxed them out in a deck. My friend can only cross-ride in 1 or 2 out of the 10 matches. No toolbox card other than Doom Bringer Gryphon, which is considered bad. Adding soul-charging cards like Vortex Dragon only waste space in your deck.

PBO: Compared to DOTE, this guy is a lot easier to cross-ride as we have the Blaster Dark evolutionary family. Phantom Bringer Demon is just as bad as Doom Bringer Gryphon. Even if you can't cross ride, Nightmare Painter is there to save the day! Cards like Macha make things easier. However, his PB cost reduces his utility. He is somehow just a vanilla 13k vanguard most of the time and you can only combo it with Masquerade. Congratulations if you manage to activate his Persona Blast, but a Perfect Guard is the perfect solution to counter this. It's just pretty straight-forward.

MLB: Perhaps what I consider the weakest of the three. Without the Blasters in his soul, he is completely useless; he's just a 10k vanilla Vanguard. Using Star Call Trumpeter recklessly just to find the Blasters can let yourself ended up not enough Counterblast for Blaster Blade or other cards. Your opponent can easily counter MLB's effect with a kanzen bougyo when you put the 2 Blasters into the soul. When it's your opponent's turn, you have no unit to intercept and you will run out of cards in your hands very quickly. A lot of consideration is needed to put in when building a deck revolves around him.

Isn't this what you said, clans or cards considered 'broken' are the ones which are popular most of the time. Just refer to my first post "Gold Paladin - Broken?" You are somehow contradicting yourself in my opinion.

I'm being overdramatic like Barcgal-hating faggots. How do you not get this?

ShinkenRed wrote:

Alice wrote:

They didn't restrict The End, Majesty Lord, or PBO regardless of how mind-numbingly annoying it is that the entire meta revolves around 3 broken cards. Oh, but let's get rid of Barcgal.

So no, I don't think she'll end up restricted even if she's obviously advantageous.

These 3 aren't broken. I feel kinda sian whenever I hear anyone say this.

DOTE: Extremely hard to cross-ride successfully even you maxed them out in a deck. My friend can only cross-ride in 1 or 2 out of the 10 matches. No toolbox card other than Doom Bringer Gryphon, which is considered bad. Adding soul-charging cards like Vortex Dragon only waste space in your deck.

PBO: Compared to DOTE, this guy is a lot easier to cross-ride as we have the Blaster Dark evolutionary family. Phantom Bringer Demon is just as bad as Doom Bringer Gryphon. Even if you can't cross ride, Nightmare Painter is there to save the day! Cards like Macha make things easier. However, his PB cost reduces his utility. He is somehow just a vanilla 13k vanguard most of the time and you can only combo it with Masquerade. Congratulations if you manage to activate his Persona Blast, but a Perfect Guard is the perfect solution to counter this. It's just pretty straight-forward.

MLB: Perhaps what I consider the weakest of the three. Without the Blasters in his soul, he is completely useless; he's just a 10k vanilla Vanguard. Using Star Call Trumpeter recklessly just to find the Blasters can let yourself ended up not enough Counterblast for Blaster Blade or other cards. Your opponent can easily counter MLB's effect with a kanzen bougyo when you put the 2 Blasters into the soul. When it's your opponent's turn, you have no unit to intercept and you will run out of cards in your hands very quickly. A lot of consideration is needed to put in when building a deck revolves around him.

Isn't this what you said, clans or cards considered 'broken' are the ones which are popular most of the time. Just refer to my first post "Gold Paladin - Broken?" You are somehow contradicting yourself in my opinion.

definition of Broken - Cards that single-handedly warp game play. While they don't consistently or always do it, forcing a player to aim for numbers above 16k for a good hit warps gameplay, even if it is only once in 10 games. It's enough to give them a slight edge, though slight is all they need to take 8 out of 12 top placing spots in recent OCG regional tournaments.

So yes. They are Broken cards. They change gameplay drastically. Gold Paladins do not change game play. SUPER powerful, sure, but your opponent is still playing to hit the same numbers. THEIR game is unchanged save maybe blocking a little more.